I think these four videos are quite informative. Check them out:
The first minute and a half of the final video are particularly disturbing to me. Those sounds and motions Todd is making look like NOTHING I’ve ever read about in the Bible. They seem completely fleshly. Remove the sweetly pensive “worship” music being played in the background, and Bentley’s noises and actions would probably strike most Christians as downright indecent.
I actually found myself feeling so disturbed by the various spectacles that I could hardly finish watching Part 4. Please be forewarned…yet I think these videos provide a succinct summary of everything that is wrong with what it happening in Lakeland. If you are having questions about the “outpouring,” I recommend that you watch them anyway. Just pray for the Lord to “guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus” before pressing “play.”
Please see “A Call for Discernment” by going to http://www.justinpeters.org. Justin is an evangelist and in addition to expository preaching, also holds seminars on the “Word of Faith” movement. He has cerebral palsy and concurs with the apostle Paul, “My grace is sufficient for thee.”
To God be the glory!
Caron
Staying Within the Confines of the Word of God
God has left us His Word and His Spirit to give us direction for our lives. Our lives are to be governed by the Word of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. (Psalm 119:105, John 16:13, Romans 8:14) When we go outside of the parameters of the Word of God we open the door to demonic deception. (Ephesians 4:27)
There are 3 doctrines being taught in the church today that in my opinion are very harmful because they open the door to demonic power to manifest in the church. The first one is that if you are a prophet you can prophesy to anyone you want at will because you are a prophet. This doctrine violates the Word of God. The Word of God says in 1 Corinthians 12:11 the gifts of the Spirit operate as God wills, not as we will. 2 Peter 1:21 says that prophecy never comes by the will of man. Ironically if you get into verse one of chapter two he begins to warn the church about false prophets. When a person operates the gifts of the Spirit by his own will he opens the door to familiar spirits that are demonic to give him information. That person now becomes a Christian medium for demonic power. Even Jesus could not operate the gifts of the Spirit as He willed because He was operating as the son of man on the earth. He had put His mighty power and glory to the side and had to be anointed to function for God. (John 5:19, 20, 30, Philippians 2:7 TLB, Acts 10:38)
The second doctrine that I also see that is damaging to the church is the doctrine of seeking angelic visitations and asking God to give you visions. No where in scripture do we see this. There is no biblical basis for this. The Bible says we walk by faith and not by sight. (2 Corinthians 5:7) Again seeing into the spirit realm is done thru the gift of discerning of spirits which is one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. Again like prophecy this gift operates as the spirit wills. When you go outside of the Word of God you open yourself up for demonic deception and you will begin to have visions of angels and Jesus but it will be devils that transform themselves as angels of light to deceive people.(2 Corinthians 11:12-15)
Colossians2:18-19(The Message Translation)Don’t tolerate people who try to run your life, ordering you to bow and scrape, insisting that you join their obsession with angels and that you seek out visions. They’re a lot of hot air, that’s all they are. They’re completely out of touch with the source of life, Christ, who puts us together in one piece, whose very breath and blood flow through us. He is the Head and we are the body. We can grow up healthy in God
The third doctrine that is damaging to the body of Christ is that you can go to Heaven and visit any time you want to. They use Hebrews 4:16, Ephesians 2:6 these doctrines are doctrines of devils devised in these last days to cause people to fall away. (1Timothy 4:1-2, 2 Timothy 4:1-5) When you start visualizing and doing some of the new age stuff they are teaching about this you will have supernatural experiences but they won’t be from Jehovah God but from the god of this world the devil.
Hebrews 5:14 tells us that thru the use of the meat of the Word of God we train our senses to discern both good and evil. Let us judge things by the Word of God and the inward witness of the Holy Ghost.(1 Thessalonians 5:20-21, John 16:13, Romans 8:14,16, 1 John 4:1)
In the end, there really is nothing that can be said or done to disuade people from this and other demonic revivals. We can list all the dangerous doctrines, carefully dismantle them with Scripture, present clear logic, pinpoint all the wierdness, compare it with the occult, and spread the news about it on the Internet … but many many people will still go and believe that this is revival and regard anyone who doesn’t as Judases. Logic has no effect upon a drunken mind… the only thing we can do is pray and believe that God will preserve His true sheep from the antics of demons. Yet I do not believe that God will step in and stop this because it is a part of the end times falling away that Paul spoke of in Timothy. What we can be confident in is knowing that in the end God wins. Being faithful to the end is so key for all true Christians.
I was raised up in the Charismatic movement and I am watching long-time friends and acquaintences being swept away by this revival. I’ve tried to talk logic to them. I’ve explained to them Todd Bentley’s beliefs, but they are looking at the manifestations alone and still insist its real because they have seen healings for themselves. I have decided to let it go and not even try to talk to them anymore about it. It has to do with their own personal relationship with God and being open to hear Him speak to them personally.
I think Christians. especially those people who are looking for an experience or a “feeling” which they believe is God’s anoinint, are very naive and gullible.
Jan
Jan,
I know what you mean. It is practically impossible to reason with someone who believes that “signs and wonders” trump everything else.
But miracles – even genuine “wonders” – do not prove that something is of God. After all, Pharaoh’s magicians were able to duplicate some of Moses’ miracles in the book of Exodus. Some of these things were downright amazing, such as when Moses’ staff turned into a serpent.
It all reminds me of Jesus’ own words: “An evil generation asks for a sign.” He then added that the only sign that would be given would be the “sign of Jonah” – in other words, His own death on the cross and resurrection after 3 days in the tomb.
That’s the only sign we ought to NEED. Or look to. I still believe in the miraculous, and I still believe that God does dramatic miracles today. But to make those things the focal point of our Christian experience is wrong. Especially when we do so at the expense of Biblical truth.
I can’t watch the videos right now, so my opinion is less informed than it could be… but, something struck me as I read what was written:
>Those sounds and motions Todd is making look like NOTHING I’ve ever read about in the Bible. They seem completely fleshly.
First, you say that you don’t see the sounds or motions in the Bible. This is a faulty argument. There is no way scripture could record every sound or visible reaction that mankind will experience. The question is, are those sounds or motions forbidden in scripture? No. Then it’s not appropriate to lay that burden on someone yourself.
Next, you say that they SEEM completely fleshly. Your own analysis of what you see isn’t strong enough of an argument. Just because they seem fleshly to you doesn’t mean they are.
In a service once, someone came up to me as they were watching someone laughing and rolling on the ground. He said, “That’s not God.”
How in the world can he know that? He was mistaken.
It’s called the gift of discernment. Add to that the fact that God is not a capricious drunk… it doesn’t take much to discern when the flesh of man is acting.
r180 -
You are correct, more or less, in that my definition of what looks “fleshly” might be different than yours or someone else’s.
However…if one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control, then why would the Holy Spirit be the source of Todd’s behavior? Does God contradict Himself? Would God tell us to exhibit self-control and then “move” in an “outpouring” during which the key speaker (Todd) seems to have none?
More curiously, why is this lack of self-control, where the supposed “anointing” removes a person’s ability to keep himself from jerking his microphone or shaking his head from side to side, somehow lose its power when a guy crashes to the floor with an expensive computer? Why did he have no ability to control his fall, but then he WAS able to control his handling of the laptop so that it did not crash with him but was cushioned against the fall?
Set aside how the “outpouring” might make you FEEL, and set aside how some people might be getting HEALED, and really, there is virtually NOTHING left of these meetings that is compatible with Scripture. Todd’s altar calls are vague. He barely makes any mention of man’s sinful condition or of what it means to repent. Instead, he asks people to “accept Christ,” without explaining what that actually means or why anyone would need to do that. Moreover, with the sort of “Christ” he talks about at the meetings, I’m hard-pressed to recognize the Jesus Whom the Bible describes. Todd’s “Jesus” takes a back seat to angels. Todd’s “Jesus” frolics with him in visions. Todd’s “Jesus” gives Todd instructions (like, “Kick her in the face” ) that sound NOTHING like the Jesus of the Bible and once again contradict other commands we are given to be gentle and kind. What does it even MEAN, to walk forward and accept Todd’s “Jesus”?
Even the times of worship are more focused on angels, the PLACE where the “anointing” is, and the people singing the songs than they are on the holy, omnipotent, triune God of the Bible.
I watched two segments on youtube yesterday, posted by an obviously pro-”outpouring” person, of the singing in Lakeland. The first song, called “Holy” (I think), had more in its lyrics about angels and the feeling in the room than it did about God. The second song, entitled “We Are The Generation,” was almost completely focused on the people…and was all about taking dominion.
I’m sure other music is being sung at these meetings – I would certainly hope so! – so I’m not going to say that it’s all like what I saw on youtube. But the fact that those two songs were considered a sampling of the “worship” that is taking place there raises even more questions.
But back to r180’s point -
You do realize, don’t you, that when you tell me my own feelings about something (such as calling Todd’s bizarre activity with the microphone “fleshly”) aren’t valid, you are also invalidating anything that you yourself might say in support of Todd’s meetings? If my feelings are not a legitimate test of whether or not something is “fleshly” or “spiritual,” then neither are yours.
At least I have far more Biblical basis for MY feelings.
I think r180 needs to find a computer where he can watch the videos and hear Todd hissing and chanting. I can’t believe a church would allow Todd Bentley to share those bizzare experiences as coming from our Father God. Wasn’t the pastor of the church discerning enough? He should have apologized to his church for allowing such heresy to be taught. Who knows, maybe he did address it with his church later after it happened. I should hope so. And it sounds just like an alien abduction. Furthermore, an angel from God wouldn’t burn down a hotel.
Charismania, you don’t need to defend what you believe. You are right-on. There is no defense in the truth. Just speak your heart and let it go. I am so glad you are bold enough to share about this on the internet. Thank you.
charismania,
I have watched those videos elsewhere before you posted them here. They do seem to be making the rounds and that is a good thing I think! More people need to be able to see this stuff. Sometimes I simply can’t believe what I am seeing. There are a lot of people that agree with the things you are saying. And a lot us, like you, are ones that were formerly caught up in all of this to one degree or another. It just simply does not fit the character of God as revealed in His Word or the picture He gave us of how He interacts with His people. When the Bible in any way stops being our standard, anything can, and does, happen.
r180,
Galatians 5:19-24 says:
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Did you notice that “drunkeness” is a “Work of the Flesh”? And “self-control” is a fruit of the Spirit?
Jesus said we judge a tree by its fruit. A man who is acting drunk, taking God’s name in vain, etc -and not walking in self-control – is being controlled by his flesh, not the Holy Spirit.
God bless you.
Cheryl,
You said,
This statement is at the heart of my concerns about what is happening in Charismaniac churches…both our former church and places like the Bentley meetings.
It’s as though there’s this great divide between people who are willing to set aside the specifics of God’s Word because of personal experiences, and those who believe that personal experiences alone cannot be used as validation. Neither, actually, can RESULTS.
Some months ago, while I was having some extreme nostalgia for the “Word of Faith” outlook (because I missed the idea of God as my personal genie), I found a recommendation online for a book that supposedly “documented” miracles and deliverances. I immediately ordered it, and when it arrived, I devoured it in a single afternoon.
Yet halfway through, I was already extremely disappointed. The book was not “documenting” ANYTHING. Rather, it was written from the perspective of, “Well, the Bible doesn’t really tell us to do this [have a counseling ministry through casting out demons, even from Christians], but let me tell you, it works!” This would be followed by instances where demons were supposedly cast out…with great results…and yet, it didn’t seem like there was any real follow-up with these people, just “manifestations” like vomiting or something. I was sitting there the whole time I was reading, muttering to myself, “Just because something SEEMS to work does not make it true or something that God thinks Christians ought to do!”
Pragmatism – the idea that whatever works is good – cannot be our standard. Only God’s Word can be our standard.
And my philosophy, after seeing all the abuses at our former church, and after seeing all the wacky places where the “God told me” mentality can take a person, is that if God wanted His people to know something or use a strategy (such as the increasingly popular “Contemplative Prayer,” for instance), He would have clearly said so in the Bible. Likewise the entire notion of “deliverance ministries,” where Christians are “delivered” from their “demons.”
Anything that is not clearly stated in the Bible simply cannot be “the secret” to successful Christian living. I’m thinking of things such as Todd Bentley’s trips to the third heaven, for instance. He wrote an entire book about pursuing these sorts of experiences, and it’s presented as though these things are KEY to growing in the Christian life. I say, if God had wanted us to travel to heaven on a daily basis, God would have told us this somewhere in the New Testament. But He did not.
In fact, it doesn’t take too much effort to see that if anything, such visions were highly unusual. The Apostle Paul, for instance, shared ONE account of ONE vision he’d had fourteen years before telling about it, and even his re-telling seems very purposefully vague. He did not go into great detail about Jesus’ “Bambi eyes,” for instance (as Todd Bentley did when he described one of his visions of “Jesus”). In fact, Paul said that he was FORBIDDEN from telling certain things about his experience.
Any time we choose to give our personal experiences and feelings equal weight – or MORE weight – than we give the things that are expressly stated in the Bible, we are on extremely shaky ground. After seeing the crazy – and often downright disastrous – places where this mentality can lead people, I’d much rather build my life on the written Word of God, the thing that never changes, the thing that will “never pass away.”
I think you have drunk from the cup of legalistic religion too long and have been overtaken by it….your carnal mind be loosed and learn of the ways of the Spirit of God….many of the things you point out in the videos are mentioned of in scripture….perhaps a dose of joy is in order or perhaps David where he walked through the streets as a madman drooling and screaming to spare his life is a bit much or perhaps the day of pentecost where they were all filled with the spirit and accused of being drunk. Testing the spirts is not discerned by carnal means but by spiritual means. Is Jesus lifted up? Is He given glory? Does it follow scripture? All of these things are scriptural that are happening….many are being saved, many are healed, many are being delivered. that is fruit…test it, taste it. Then examine the fruit you have. Have you gone to the conference? probably not but you criticize your own family the body of christ because we don’t smell, think, act all the same. Tell us of the fruit in your life….are people getting saved, healed, delivered? or are you a bystanding critic to God’s people?
No, Perry…
Contrary to what you think, I was deeply involved in a Charismatic church that would have been very sympathetic toward a guy like Bentley and what is going on at Lakeland. I spent years believing everything I was told. I read all the books, and I actually felt so sad that previous “outpourings” like Toronto and Brownsville had come and gone, because if they’d still been going on, I would have traveled to those places to experience them.
Unless one can “drink from the cup of legalistic religion” at a VERY Charismatic church that always proudly proclaimed itself to be “free from religion,” your statement is simply not possible.
What did happen, though, is that I finally had to acknowledge that at least a portion of what we were being told at our church was not true. We were being told LIES, actually, about healings that had not really happened, and about financial miracles that were always “right around the corner.” Trust me – I fought acknowledging the truth for a long, long time. But one day, as I listened to our former pastor once again “prophesy” a “great ourpouring of financial blessing” on the congregation, and as I watched all the people whirling and dancing around in response to what he’d said, I realized that the excitement and the joy on display were all about the here and the now – the temporal and the earthly. If he’d “prophesied” that everyone would lead one lost soul to Jesus that week, nobody would have been in the aisles. But money? That’s dance-worthy.
And totally NOT Scriptural!
Likewise, Lakeland and all its hype are along those same lines. Take away the purported healings and the good feelings that people get when they fall down and roll around (been there, done that too), and I’m not sure what you’d even have left. I’ve watched several clips of Todd’s “altar calls,” and I’m sorry, but he hardly even talks about WHY humanity needs a Savior! These people you say are supposedly getting saved – what are they thinking they’re getting saved from? It’s not enough for them to be told to “accept Jesus.”
Plus, as I’ve said before, the “Jesus” that Todd presents to them isn’t even the Jesus of the Bible.
So, Perry, you are wrong. I do not have a “religious spirit.” If anything, my joy in the Lord – true joy for what He has done for me, for all eternity – has INCREASED since leaving our Charismaniac church. My peace has increased as well, because I’m no longer striving to ignore things that I know aren’t right…and I’m no longer trying to lie to myself with “positive confessions” and the like.
Have you ever thought, though, how strange it is to post negative, attacking, and accusatory comments like yours on someone’s blog? Don’t you see even a bit of the irony that exists in your own behavior? You are accusing me of just “being religious” because I am pointing out certain things about Bentley’s ministry. Yet YOU are pointing out the things you think are wrong about my writing…telling me I’m being divisive, all the while attacking me.
Very strange. Very ironic.
Hi, Melissa -
I’m so sorry, but for some reason, your comment went into our “spam catcher” and I only just saw it this morning.
Thanks for what you posted. It was excellent.
Perry’s comments are typical of the mindset that sees anyone who is resistant to “revival” as being legalistic. While there certainly are people who get caught up in pointing out every last flaw and heretic in the church to the point of burning witches (figuratively that is), this blog is not one of them. There are no outlandish accusations such as conspiracy theories of Todd being a Satanist or an agent of the Roman Catholic beast … typical banter that you would hear from Seventh Day Adventists and the like. Instead this blog is pointing out legitimate and striking questions/flaws in Bentley’s supposed “revival” and doing so with genuine concern for the well-being of Christians that are being duped by this obvious antichrist. I would like to see a single person who has genuinely been saved and baptized by Bentley’s revival. Bentley’s is definitely producing fruit… but we have no need to taste of the poisoned fruit. None of us are attacking God’s people, we are speaking out against the darkness that is enveloping God’s people. And when people like you Perry come and make hit-and-run blanket comments without stopping to ponder the immense inconsistencies of Todd’s ministry, you display the very blindness typical of open-ended Christians (even Mormons) who believe prophets, regardless of obvious inconsistencies, supersede the Bible.
Charismania,
Thanks for your reply. I have come to the same conclusions you have about things that aren’t found in the Bible. I didn’t always believe that way either but came to it through experinece with the strange and wacky that happens otherwise.
These two verses are the ones I currently base my belief on:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV
Note Scriptures ability to make the man of God perfect and throughly furnished for all good work.
David and Cheryl -
You are both exactly right.
I don’t understand (and perhaps “perry,” if he’s still reading here, would care to respond, if he’s ever even thought through his own accusation) why questioning is “having a religious spirit”?
Or why pragmatism – “Todd’s ways work, people are getting healed, people are getting saved” – is viewed as God’s stamp of approval?
Or why “signs and wonders” are always assumed to be from God, just because they’re happening in a Christian setting?
Or why people assume that when someone uses the name of Jesus, they actually are referring to the historical Jesus of the Bible?
Or why the statement, “I watched Todd on GodTV and I felt God’s presence in the broadcast” can be used as proof that everything is A-OK, and yet my statement of, “When I watch him teach, my spirit tells me that he is contradicting God’s Word” cannot be used as proof. (If you’re going to say that our FEELINGS can be used as validation, then why are my feelings not as valid as yours?)
Or why the pro-Todd folks do not seem in the least concerned about Jesus’ warnings regarding false teachers. After all, Jesus gave those instructions initially to His DISCIPLES. These were the guys who had actually SEEN Him in person…and would, shortly after that discourse, SEE Him die, and then, 3 days later, would SEE Him as the risen Savior (hallelujah, by the way!). If deception were so obvious, would Jesus have found it necessary to warn His disciples? Do we somehow think we are above them in our ability to detect false teachers?
I’m sure I’ll think of other things that make me wonder. I’ll update as I go along.
Hi again,
In regard to some of your wonderings above, I’ll throw out my two cents worth of “whys” just from my own experiences and perspectives. So, for whaever it’s worth:
“Or why pragmatism – “Todd’s ways work, people are getting healed, people are getting saved” – is viewed as God’s stamp of approval?”
I think people have forgotten that God gave us specific ways to do things and to approach Him and that there are consequences when we don’t. He said we must worship in Spirit and in TRUTH.
“Or why “signs and wonders” are always assumed to be from God, just because they’re happening in a Christian setting?”
I have heard two answers to this question. First, “We have to trust in God’s ability to bless us more than Satan’s abiliby to decieve us.” And also, “If we ask Him for bread, He won’t give us a serpent.” Also, there is the old encouragement to not analyze or think, just open up and recieve.
“Or why people assume that when someone uses the name of Jesus, they actually are referring to the historical Jesus of the Bible?”
I think one reason is that Christians just don’t want to think badly about anyone and don’t take the warnings in Scripture about false prophets and teachers seriously. And they certainly don’t take the statement in Corinthians about another Gospel, another Jesus, or receiving another spirit seriously.
EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS:
I watched the revival on God TV last night on the internet, and to my surprise, Todd Bentley was actually preaching the truth and quoting scriptures about healing. It was right-on and I thought thjat maybe we had assumed too much, jumped to conclusions, and he is actually is in the right “Spirit” afterall. He also apologized for for a story they reported of a boy who had died and was raised from the dead. It was fabricated and actually not true. Then he had a man from Argentina come up on the stage. He spoke about holiness, repentence and sin and asked for those with addictions to bring up their cigarettes, illegal drugs and jewelry tokens from adulterous or homosexual relationships. There was a big response. I even sensed the power of God coming over the internet and thought – hey Todd is really on the right track and so is this guy, praise God! I felt a huge sense of relief about this revival.
AND … Then to my dismay … at the very end of the broadcast, the bomb came.
Todd began telling everyone that he received prophetic words from very qualified “SEERS” in the church and they told him that his ministry was under a demonic attack right now and that interference in the spirit realm was present, blah, blah, blah. Then he said this interference and attack coming from demons was to try and get him to stop talking about the angels, open heavens and visions in the meetings, but that the revival was …. get this … based on his supernatural experiences that he had, and HE WOULD NOT be silent about all the angels and open portals, visions, supernatural experiences, etc. One of these so-called “seers” told him she saw a white light coming down from the heavens on Todd in a vision.
This made me sick. Then everyone in the room began to chant and waive their hands wildly, and the whole spirit of the place changed.
Todd asked that everyone pray to support him in his beliefs.
Did any of you who read this blog see this last night? I hope they caught it on YouTube.
Thanks for your responses,
Jan
If that happened then Todd really knows how to manipulate a Christian crowd.
Charismania, thank you for your posts. Keep it up.
First off, to alleviate confusion I am a different “Lee” than the one who has been blogging on here. I arrived here via cheryl U. who blogs on another site I contribute to.
With that out of the way, I looked at the comments on this thread and noticed “r180″ on here and his comment. I thought charismania’s response to his post was quite good. He and I had a discussion on a different blog in which he at least eventually exposed the fact that he is on staff at IHOP. This is the only thread I’ve read so far on this particular site; so, I don’t know if he’s commented on others on this site. However, I did want you to know — in case he hasn’t mentioned this before — his IHOP affiliation as a point of reference.
He stands firm on his “if it’s not expressly forbidden in the Bible, we can’t dismiss it” stance which is a very convenient way of excusing all types of extra-Biblical behaviours, visions and
transferencesimpartations of the “anointing” by Bentley (and others).- Lee the 2nd
Hi, Alex, and thanks for joining us.
Jan, what you say is interesting. I did not see the last night’s service. I think I mentioned this somewhere else here, but I have a difficult time watching the broadcasts. I find so much of them highly disturbing.
But I really struggle with what to think of everything. I do believe that if you get enough people together – people who are hungering for God – God will respond to those people. But I also think that a lot of it can be the product of manipulation, especially given what you report Todd saying at the end. Essentially, he is taking credit for what is happening. He can pay lip service to the idea that, “It’s all about Jesus,” but he essentially said that without his stories of portals and visits to heaven and whirlwinds of flames, there’d be no miracles or “outpouring.”
This is wrong.
“Lee the 2nd”
-
Thanks for the info about “r180.” I don’t find this particularly surprising, especially because his own website seemed very supportive of IHOP (and I only gave it a brief glance).
I would dearly, DEARLY love to have Jesus sit down with me and clear up everything confusing. If I had 5 minutes of His time, I’d ask Him what He wants us to think about all this stuff. I can’t imagine that all the false prophecies and craziness that has come out of IHOP and through the Elijah’s List could possibly be what Jesus wants. Likewise the strangeness of Bentley’s teachings and meetings.
Perhaps we should all commit to spending a certain amount of time in prayer for the Lord to give us His attitude toward these things?
(I think I already know what His thoughts are, since He gave them to us in the Bible, but it’s still bizarre to hear about the good that seems to be coming out of some of the meetings anyway.) How can we know what to make of it?
charismania,
Did you see his “House of Dreams Blueprint?” The ‘fire’ (kundalini?) is all over that.
Now, that I’ve brought up the subject of “fire” I wanted to point out where the error of seeking the “fire of God” emanates. Most regulars here probably know this; but, perhaps newbies or lurkers could benefit. This comes from a misinterpretation/pretense of this verse:
11″I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire…” [Matthew 3:11 NIV]
The trouble with taking Bible verses in isolation is you may most likely miss the true meaning of its full context. Going one verse further:
12″…His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” [Matthew 3:12 NIV]
The “wheat in the barn” are the true Holy Spirit indwelled Christians who will be “gathered” while the “chaff” which is “burned up” with “unquenchable fire” are the ones who do not accept Christ (even if they really think they have — Matthew 7:21-23) and are bound for hell.
The practice of using pretexts or taking scripture out of context is Satan’s oldest trick going back to the Garden of Eden. And, the best way to defeat this is just as Jesus did in the desert just after His baptism [Matthew 4:3-11] when Satan tried to trick him. Jesus used the Sword of the Spirit — the Word of God. It’s our best defense as well.
- Lee the 2nd
charismania,
Regarding your last three paragraphs in post #24 I understand what you mean. I think it’s God’s “strong delusion” on those who “refuse to love the Truth.” [2 Thessalonians 2:9-12] The “miraculous healings” and etc. are to further deceive those who are seeking signs and wonders rather than God. However, IMHO I believe there are those who really don’t know any of the background of this stuff and who are truly seeking the LORD rather than signs and wonders and He in his grace, mercy and wisdom will bless those.
- Lee the 2nd
Did you see his “House of Dreams Blueprint?” The ‘fire’ (kundalini?) is all over that.
I meant r180’s website.
Todd Bentley admits that its not all about Jesus.
How many of you want to believe in something new?
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc&feature=related
Lee the 2nd,
I’m ashamed to admit that I never thought of that verse within its context before!
I think where the confusion might have arisen is that when the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, He appeared as “tongues of fire.” People think that fire is the symbol of the Holy Spirit.
Our former church’s logo even featured flames engulfing an eagle. (Some people joked – although I personally thought it was fairly artistically and tastefully done – that it looked like the logo for a chicken roaster restaurant!
) Since noticing these things after we left, I’ve seen that many churches of the Charismatic/Pentecostal persuasion will include flames in their logo.
Interesting.
Jan,
Freaky video! I’d seen transcripts of him saying that God didn’t want people to hear about Jesus, ostensibly because (according to Todd Bentley’s “God”), “They already believe in Jesus.”
What in the world????? Where in the Bible do we ever read that a time would come, before Christ’s return, when, “Everyone will already believe in Jesus.”
Weird.
Well, since the Holy Spirit always points to Jesus, sin and repentance [John 14:15 - 16:16]; then it’s pretty clear the which spirit is in Lakeland/Bentley.
- Lee the 2nd
Number one thanks for the seminar from Justin, it was touched my hearth.
I will show it in Holland too.