The other day, I was poking around on youtube, and I stumbled across a series of videos recently released by our former church’s music department. Pastor Smith’s (not their real last name) son (an excellent pianist but a horrifically tone-deaf singer) put out a new CD this past spring, and the church had obviously poured a bunch of money into producing some pretty professional looking DVDs of the key songs.
[Random aside: I couldn’t help but wonder, as I watched the choir and backup singers, many of whom are amazingly talented, if Tommy Smith was giving any of these singers and musicians a cut of the money he raked in from selling his CD and DVD. I highly doubt it. Yet without those singers and musicians, people would be forced to listen to the pastor’s son sing alone, and he’d be a mere shadow of what he’s now able to think he is as he hides behind those who can actually carry a tune.]
Anyway, I bring up those youtube videos because one of the new songs Tommy had written contained lyrics that focused on how all we as Christians need is “just a moment” with God.
It is actually a very pretty song, one that tugged at my heartstrings as I listened to the emotive harmonies, the whispered, worshipful “hallelujahs” in the background. And a part of it was quite nice, singing about a moment in the Lord’s presence, and how wonderful this could be.
Matter of fact, the majority of the songs Tommy Smith has written are along these same lines, always celebrating God’s presence…with the insinuation being, of course, that it (God’s presence) is found within the four walls of our former church. I’ve been struck by this observation before, but as I listened to this new song, pretty though it was, it yet again occurred to me that the people at our old church really believe that “receiving a touch from God” is what a successful Christian life is all about. Have a problem? Get the pastor to lay hands on you. Need a breakthrough? Hope and pray that the pastor will give you a prophetic word. Need to make progress in your Christian life? Well, the specifics of Godly character were rarely discussed – not even simple things, like being nice to one another in the church parking lot, instead of cutting people off and giving them dirty looks as you fought for your turn to exit after the service.
We would never hear basic, practical teachings from the Bible. But we were relentlessly hammered with the idea that “being in God’s presence” – which was defined as falling down on the ground, weeping before the Lord, praying in church – was what was needed to make one holy. If you wanted to be a victorious Christian, you needed to be where God’s presence was.
Of course, there’s a nugget of truth buried in there somewhere. But it only takes “a little leaven” to ruin the whole thing, right?
People at our former church never seemed to be taught that the keys to Christian living were right there in their hands – the Bible, and the indwelling Holy Spirit Who already resides in them as believers. People were never taught that they should look to the Holy Spirit to help them become more Christlike, in such areas as being more honest (we met more pathological liars at our former church than I’d met in my entire lifetime prior to becoming members). Aside from being told to give money sacrificially to the church, people were never taught anything about “dying to self.” Instead, we were told week after week that God was going to make us people of great destiny, that we were going to be favored, that we were going to be prosperous…as long as we remained at Living Word Church (for the record, a pseudonym) and under the “covering” of Pastor Smith’s “anointing” – which, when you got right down to it, was always defined as the power that flowed through him when he preached, prophesied, and laid hands on people.
So, Tommy Smith’s new song is pretty good at summing up what the Christian faith is at our former church – it really is about “moments in time,” where one “feels” God’s presence…with the insinuation being that it happens at church, through the pastor or his appointed guest speakers.
I think more than a bit of that mentality is at work in the Lakeland meetings, too. “Come and get some” means what? What, exactly, is going to be the fruit produced by “some” of whatever “it” is? I guess time will tell…how many of those people will shake and tremble and twitch and roll, “drunk,” all the way back home, and actually exhibit more Christ-like character?
I hope it’s all of them, but from our own experience, I’d be surprised if it were very many at all. I knew far too many people who did lots of “carpet time” at our old church, only to get up and go and lie and cheat and just be generally wacky flakes the rest of the 167 hours left in the week.
Yet they thought – because we were constantly fed this notion – that they had a superior handle on Christian living since they had access to Pastor Smith’s “anointing.” They’d enjoyed many memorable moments in “God’s presence” at church. And since that’s all it takes, they had it all together.
This “moment in time” type of Christianity feels good, and it sounds appealing because it’s easy. But since its fruit bears so little resemblance to the “fruits of the Spirit” (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control), I do not believe that it’s healthy for us to reduce our life in Christ to distinct occasions where we “feel” something that has been dispensed to us through “the anointing” of another human being.
Try as I might, I just can’t find this concept anywhere in my Bible.
We need more than just a momen.et with God
Pastors especailly need to read their Bible one hour a day amd pray one hour a day too.
There is no denial as to how cold, ruthless, uncompassionate, uncaring, immoral, ruthless, slanderous, gossiping, abusive the majority of evangelical pastors Canada wide where in my many personal encounters, experiences that I had in the last 4 decades too but I did rightfully did not throw out the baby with the dirty wash water. Rather I rightfully tended to ask the bad pastors and their bad supporters now too to change to repent instead..
Sow the wrong seed and you can also next reap a whirl wind , church pastors included now, and there is really no such thing as a little bit allowable sins for pastors included, no such thing as being a little bit pregnant here too.. and it is still clearly unacceptable for any Pastors to counsel a man’s wife behind his back and without his knowledge, approval, permission, but even this sadly an unacceptable common occurrence in evangelical churches now too, even in the Brethren, Baptist, Alliance and Pentecostals churches now too.. and this is how the war against the perverse pastors’ of the Toronto airport church and other similar bad churches had next escalated. When any spouse starts to talk to others about their family affairs they now are next definitely headed towards divorce wars as well..
The bad pastors are trying to get falsely their rewards on earth it seems and not in heaven.. Do what I say and not what I do is what they also preach.
“The ignorance of the Bible and the works of the Holy Spirit have placed many people, churches, radio and television ministries, and itinerant ministries in jeopardy for their very existence because they are so desperate for success, numbers and money that they are ready to chase after any experience or anybody whom they think will attract people to them. There are many people today who do not know their Scriptures and the penalties that come from straying away from them. They are like the Sadducees of whom Jesus said, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God” (Matt. 22: 29; Mk. 12: 24).” http://cnt10c.tripod.com/revival.pdf
Their ignorance of the Bible is alone not the issue, most Christians, church leaders also wrongfully personally do pick and choose what parts of the Bible they will practice, and which one they will not. All professing Christians daily need to practice what they know, even the ten commandments.
Many many pastors do wrongfully still think that the citizens complaints about them is all a big joke, they laugh at it, mock them too. Don’t believe me, just do an internet search “Walter Kambulow” and see their poor responses to his writings. Pastors falsely think they are above the law and yet many of them have, do threaten to sue you when you get too close and personal about them. They want it both ways, they cannot though. They the evangelical pastors firstly do need to get real, to act like real Christians firstly now and work for God rather then self. They seem to have nice cars, nice homes, great salaries, expensive perks, vacations too too many of them.. Pastors Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart was not the first or last pervert, crook.
The bad pastors are trying to get falsely their rewards on earth it seems and not in heaven.. Do what I say and not what I do is what they also preach.
And why am I so rightfully hard on the evangelical pastors you say? Well firstly they should know more and even behave better than the rest, and not rather be more unacceptable religious hypocrites. I have mentioned recenlty how one Pastor had lied on the net, he rewrote what I had posted to him.. and next did not post my subsequent responses to him too? Did that stop me, dream on, I just posted the truth on my own many popular sites for everyone to know what he did, is like too, but at least the same pastor showed me how immorally he really was now too by what he did. Was I disappointed yet? Yes. Was I really surprised? No? ” For there still is nothing good in man! It is not just the lay persons who need to daily repent of their sins but all pastors now as well, preaching the gospel is never an acceptable alternative to living it too. I too would rightfully rather see a sermon first lived than one merely hypocritically preached to me. The Word of God is also like a two edged sword, it applies to the preacher as well as the one being preached to.
My door bell rang and a person was there asking for donations to World Vision Canada, asking me if I had heard of it? Have I personally heard of it? a vice president of this corporation that I had personally known, been to his home too had already lied about me, slandered me, spread other people’s lies about me.. He was an ex Christian & Missionary Alliance Missionary NOW AS WELL. Like I said many times before God still expects all professing Christians to live a godly life, not just pretend they do… God does not overlook human right abuses even by so called Christians now too.. for God is not impressed by what Church they go to, where they work, and what fancy title they may have now as well.
THE MAN KING OF THE HOUSE, THE WOMAN HIS DUTIFUL SUBJECT. The man is the king of the household, and the wife is only the prime minister. There is no confusion or overlapping of authority. The will of the husband is law. He has the only place of honor . The arrangements of the house, the company entertained, and the service employed, all have respect to his wishes and to his convenience. The wife conducts the affairs of state for the king. She has her household and, more than her personal allowance, and she renders a strict account of stewardship. The wife’s personal expenditures are less, much less than the husband’s. The will of the husband is the undisputed law; as to the wife her person, her property, her children under his sole control even to the present time are the rights secured to the husband under present English law. Like it or not but these laws were based on the Bible, which states (Eph 5:23 KJV) ” For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body”
and most Evangelical pastors DO need to recognize AND PRACTICE this still too.
I went to a Church for the first time in the Calgary NW Suburb AND I KNEW AFTER ONE SERVICE THE EVANGELICAL PASTOR WAS A CROOK, A LIAR.. My friends insisted I return to the church, but in the process they had told me that the pastor was lying about me, slandering me to others, even to them as well.. This has often happened to me by pastors of other churches, in Calgary, Montréal too, seems the much too many bad pastors like to slander and Gossip. At the next church service I had shared openly with the congregation at the end of the service that their pastor had been accused of lying, slandering me, and even stealing, , misappropriation of funds , lying also by others. The majority of Congregation members disagreed. Ten years later there was a knock on the door of my home and one of the church members told me face to face the same Calgary NW pastor was fired for lying, stealing funds. I always had wondered why it took them so long to see the truth about him?
Why?? most people are bad sheep who follow the leaders, or Ostriches when it comes to negative truths..
NOW DUE TO MY POSTS I HAVE RECEIVED BASHING EMAILS FROM MANY PASTORS NOW TOO IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. HEY I HAVE SEEN ALL KIND OF ABUSES IN THE GOVERNMENTS, CHURCHES, CIVIL AN PUBLIC SERVANTS, BY THE POLICE, RCMP, ON THE NET, IN FAMILIES AS WELL THE LAST 4 DECADES TOO,
No! I rightfully do not accept personally any abuses quietly, and neither does God, especially not from any Pastor!
And why am I so rightfully hard on the evangelical pastors you say? Well firstly they should know more and even behave better than the rest, and not rather be more unacceptable religious hypocrites. I have mentioned recenlty how one Pastor had lied on the net, he rewrote what I had posted to him.. and next did not post my subsequent responses to him too? Did that stop me, dream on, I just posted the truth on my own many popular sites for everyone to know what he did, is like too, but at least the same pastor showed me how immorally he really was now too by what he did. Was I disappointed yet? Yes. Was I really surprised? No? ” For there still is nothing good in man! It is not just the lay persons who need to daily repent of their sins but all pastors now as well, preaching the gospel is never an acceptable alternative to living it too. I too would rightfully rather see a sermon first lived than one merely hypocritically preached to me. The Word of God is also like a two edged sword, it applies to the preacher as well as the one being preached to.
(1 Tim 5:24 KJV) Some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
(1 Tim 5:25 KJV) Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
(Prov 9:9 KJV) Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
and I have often rightfully said how can I now expect the government leaders to be exemplary when the many evangelical pastors I have encountered to date were not, not even the evangelical ones..
AND it seems they all need to be told what the Bible actually says firstly, for only 5 percent of Christians read their bible, and only 25 percent of people are saved in the Christian churches… and for sure 70 percent of the many evangelical pastors I have encountered do cheat, lies, steal, committed adultery, slandered, gisspied and much more. and That is why i have hlpoed manyof them get a better job their were suited for, even original church founding pastors I had helped them to resign. Still do, any of the unrepentant bad ones.
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/the-top-ten-posts-read-by-many-in-the-last-quarter/
nonconformer,
I just have a quick question for you. What happened to the part of the Bible that says that the husband is to love the wife as Jesus loved the church and gave Himself for her? If you believe and practice that, it certainly does not come across in what you said above. Your statements are all about you and your rights and your authority.
nonconformer,
Thanks for visiting the site. Interestingly enough, your comment was flagged as “spam.” I put it through anyway, but I’d appreciate it if you limited the scope of your remarks at least somewhat to the topic at hand. Quite honestly, it’s difficult to figure out your point, since you seem to be just generally ranting against a lot of different groups of people.
Thanks for understanding.
It’s interesting, I used to think that if I didn’t cry once during worship, or feel some tingly feeling of God’s presence, that I wasn’t truly worshiping. I also used to think that churches that sang hymns were as dry as the field of bones in Ezekiel. But now that I’ve escaped Charismania and joined the Presbyterian dark-side
, I’ve found that hymns have rich scriptural content while most contemporary songs just don’t. And it’s much more exciting for me to sing hymns now. I used to get bugged that almost all contemporary christian songs are written on the major scale with about three to four chords per chorus. Pretty soon all the songs start sounding alike with little to no poetic and scriptural content. One of my favorite songs for awhile was by the Binions with the sweet refrain of “I love, I love, I love your presence”. Minus a couple verses that pretty much sing about the qualities of God’s presence, that’s the content of the song. While I don’t negate the fact that that is worship, now I totally dig the poetic hymns such as: “Great is thy faithfulness! Great is thy faithfulness! Morning by morning new mercies I see; all I have needed thy hand hath provided; great is thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!”; because now I am truly extolling God’s virtues in worship beyond simple tearjerker refrains. And the funny thing is, I don’t break down crying or have tingly feelings anymore. I just simply know that I am worshiping without needing some selfish experience out of it.
I want to let you know that the Florida Outpouring has outreach M-Sa at 1:30 everyday and we do not preach a loosie goosie gospel. We preach repentance and do not coerce people into a prayer. Also, we could care less about numbers. It is Paul who plants, Apolos who waters but God who gives the increase. Why am I telling you this attached to this post? Because it is all about HIM and while his presence is awesome, wanted and vitale his Word and foundational truths are just as important. I am always amazed at these blogs that categories people who love God and want to see the sick healed and forgive us, love his presence are made to seem as though we are malnurished Christians. I am not. I know that the 143 people that came forward tonight at the altar call, one of whom is staying in my house this week, were encouraged to get into the word immediately, start praying immediately, plug into a church outside the revival immediately, etc. They will also be followed up on. We have seen over 5000 people trained in 80 days in evangelism – the real deal gospel and we want our nation to see a great harvest. And while I know there are issues in the church like you mentioned with the money and are the musicians getting paid, etc., aren’t we to think the best of people? think on things that are excellent and praise worthy, sound familiar?
By the way, you made the comment that it’s all too easy – trust me going out everyday in the florida heat to evangelize ain’t easy and we are doing just that. and that comment about most of people you have known are flakes and lack character – maybe you just haven’t known that many or the right ones. God bless you.
Melanie,
You say that “His Word and foundational truths are important”, but how does that square with this:
Todd Bentley specifically said that God told him to get people to believe in the angel and not Jesus.
Todd Bentley brags about speaking with the dead, which is expressly forbidden in scripture.
Todd Bentley told everyone that Jesus was going to set foot on the Lakeland stage a few weeks ago. In Matthew, ch. 24 Jesus SPECIFICALLY said that people would say that, and Jesus SPECIFICALLY called them false prophets, and Jesus SPECIFICALLY said NOT TO go and see.
How can you say that God’s Word is honored when the leader continually rebelled against it in his teachings and actions?
God’s Word tells us what this so-called revival is, and in very specific and easy to understand terms. Do you believe Todd or do you believe the bible?
Andy,
Show me where Todd said “that God told him to get people to believe in the angel and not Jesus.”
Tell me specifically where Todd “brags about speaking with the dead” I haven’t heard that once in anything I have seen or heard since I have been watching his ministry for many years and have been in most services or have been watching on the internet. Oh and didn’t Jesus speak at Lazarus? Not sure if that is what you are talking about. We are commanded to heal the sick, cast out demons and raise the dead. Without forgetting to preach repentance least something worse come on them.
In regard to this statement, “Todd Bentley told everyone that Jesus was going to set foot on the Lakeland stage a few weeks ago” Todd said in the same service or the next night (I am not sure which but I did hear it with my own ears) that he did not mean literally, he said, I meant that in spirit.
And yes, I believe the Bible and study it like Paul said of the Berean’s being of more noble character.
Additionally, this Revival isn’t about Todd Bentley. MANY others are moving in miracles and healings, ordinary people who are witnessing to people on the streets of Lakeland. MANY, Andy, many are going back home and spreading the good news of Jesus that they need to repent from all known sin and turn to the only acceptable sacrifice, Jesus. And it’s not just in Lakeland services, God is moving all over the earth with signs and wonders and he is getting glory for it at least in Lakeland – I can testify to that.
I think if a person ministered like Jesus did – talking to wind, cursing trees, spitting in people’s eyes, people would be rebuking him today too, like they did back then. “They hated me, so they will hate you too.” Anyone hating you because of how you minister or what you preach? I hope so.
God Bless.
Melanie I dont want to interupt your conversation but Jesus didnt spit in someones eye, he spat in mud and then rubbed the eyes of the man. Rather than just ‘bam’ him with light he let the man see gradually. But, unlike in Todds ministry, the man was totally healed before Jesus let him go. His sight totally restored (John 9).
I have noticed that people justifying Todds strange voilent ministry are using this scripture to justify Todd saying that the kicking, and kneeing in the groin is very similar to what Jesus did when he spat in the eye of the man. I hope I can state without harm that this is a disgraceful picture to paint of Jesus.
I too have watched Todd with interest and I saw him run and knee a man in the groin. Also I watched the program where Todd read Wendy Alec email out, and SHE said Jesus was coming physically on to the stage of bentleys meetings on September 8th. It was HE who spiritualised her email, instead he should have recognised that she was prophesying falsley. Even he didnt have the faith to believe Wendys email!
If you watched the program on Sept 8th you will notice there was totally nothing different to any other meetings. Infact, if Jesus had been present, the dead would have been raised, limbs would have grown back and people wouldnt have got off that platform until they were fully healed.
What you are seeing is a counterfiet jesus, a working up of the crowd, and the total manupulation of false prophecy. How can you fall for this?
I’m glad you are being like the bereans, there is POWER in the word of God and the gospel, I am also encouraged by your desire to share the Lord with others, you never needed Todd or this current ‘outpouring’ to preach this in days gone by, you certainly dont need it now. Stick with the word of God, the sword of the Spirit and ask The Lord to show you whats happening.
Melanie,
I feel like you and I are reading the exact same thing but coming to two totally opposite interpretations.
I mean – how can you read the transcript, which contained these lines,
and NOT read that as a de-emphasizing of Jesus?? In Todd’s very own words, he claims that “God” told him that people “already believe in Jesus,” but that Todd’s mission is to get them to believe in “the supernatural.”
Truly, Melanie, can you read those words and honestly NOT see why many of us are alarmed? Do you truly think that the God of the universe would tell some guy that “people already believe in Jesus,” as though that’s just an incidental to believing in angels and the prophetic?
The God who revealed Himself in the Bible simply would not make a statement like that. No way, no how. Therefore, we can only conclude that Todd is either lying about this conversation (that it never took place at all), or (my take) that he is confused and is mistaking his own fleshly thoughts (or the voice of another spirit) for God’s voice.
Also, Melanie…
I don’t think anyone here is intending to say that NO good is coming from this “outpouring.” I believe that God – in His own mysterious ways – continues to honor the faith and hunger of His children, and also their zeal and faithfulness for Him.
But…I’d respectfully say that the good things you’re reporting – the evangelistic efforts and so forth – have very little to do with Todd Bentley. It’s actually my belief that they’re taking place IN SPITE OF HIM.
>>Show me where Todd said “that God told him to get people to believe in the angel and not Jesus.”
thanks for illustrating clearly what I have written about today as well… http://postedat.wordpress.com/
(2 Cor 11:26 KJV) In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
(Gal 2:4 KJV) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
And now dealing Todd Bentley who rightfully feels that it is necessary to defend himself against his critics and to answer some questions and some of the alleged controversies plaguing his own ministry.
These often distorted, false attacks now are critical even of three areas.
-Todd Bentley personally including his own spirituality, leadership
-The poor associates of Todd Bentley
-The doctrines of Christian denomination of the Latter rain movement itself.
But firstly it is clearly hard to take now too many of these criticism seriously when they are biased, distorted, one sided bashings, false opponents, based often on false presumptions, false suppositions, false attacks, false accusations, straw arguments, and have often been done clearly with hidden agendas, and thus they are now not rather even genuine, sincere, humble brethren offering their relevant, related points of views.
Any Christian being plagued with critics, opponents, unsubstantiated personal attacks too now, is really nothing new even to the past apostles, prophets , Jesus Christ himself who have face many similar bullies, groups etc., the devil is too ready an accuser of the Brethren, and tries to continually discredit any work of God even since the time of Jesus Christ himself now too even using inapplicable and distorted Biblical reasons and Bible verses now too
I also would not take any criticism even seriously by persons who admittedly even admit they are opposed to all charismatic’s gifts, speaking in tongues included, and the persons who do not acknowledge even themselves now having never received a clear, specific baptism of the Holy Spirit firstly, and also especially when also they themselves have not attend these meetings, or the meetings any of of the latter rain churches..
I have often rightfully said it again and again the posts of the critics tend to be more indicative of how bad the critics themselves now are, their false pride, lack of humity, their ignorance of God, His workings, and the Bible too, their own lack of love and even much more.
(2 Tim 2:25 KJV) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Theological Response to Criticism of the Lakeland Outpouring and Todd Bentley 55 page download free for all. Fresh Fire Ministries. Here is a link to the PDF file > Biblical Reasons to Receive God’s Glory and Give it Away in Power Evanglism http://www.primewriter.com/LakelandC…pdf
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/carnal-christianity-or-the-man-focus-by-carter-conlon/
Charismania,
Also, the history of man-made revivals in the West, starting with Charles Finney, shows much excitement at the beginning. The leaders brag and even show fruit of tons and tons of salvations.
But when the dust settles, as with Finney, we see that the fruit that was thought to be there didn’t really exist at all. And worse yet, those people who got caught up in the excitement then become much harder to reach with the gospel.
I’m sure that there must be something good happening to someone there, but in the long run, if history is any indicator, this so-called revival will cause much much much more damage than good.
Melanie,
It’s already been shown in the transcript where Todd said God told him to get people to believe in the angel. Also, I’m sure you can still see it on You Tube.
Also, you say you’ve been following Todd for awhile but have never heard of him speaking to the dead? He very famously tells of his meeting with Paul who told him (Todd) that he (Paul) and Abraham wrote the book of Hebrews together. And that’s just one example.
And again, Todd read a prophecy that said that Jesus would be there, and JESUS HIMSELF specifically said they were false prophets and told us NOT TO GO after them.
I don’t see any wiggle room here.
The things said here are true. The question is this:
How are you going to handle the truths that you don’t like? Are you going to ignore them and try to explain them away with faulty logic (”I never saw him say that so it must not be true”) Or are you going to conform to the word of God and admit that Todd Bentley is a false prophet, as clearly defined in God’s Word.
True or false……..
Here is what Todd Bentley believes. This is a long video but you can sense in the beginning that its very mystical with its music and sounds. Where in the Bible are we told to seek to transport ourselves to the third heaven? If you can stand to watch this whole video, you will hear Bob Jones talk about taking elevators up to the third heaven. Where is all this in the Bible? Patricia King honors Bob Jones for opening up the supernatural realm to us. She also places honor on Todd Bentley for his ministry. Where are we to treat people like exalted beings for serving God?
Anyway, you decide. This is extreme Christianity? Or is it heresy?
AND WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO INSULT, ABUSE, LIE ABOUT THE OTHER CHRISTIANS?
I HAVE BEEN RECENTLY READING AGAIN A MAJORITY OF THE CRITICS, POSTS OF THE LATTER DAY REVIVALS, and too clearly their often diverting back wrongfully the topic discussions, making often personal insulting, unacceptable derogatory remarks is even THEIR typical unChristlike bulling Reponses, self righteous, a superiority attitude, and what else? is not the right approach from anyone and it does continue to reflect poorly on ALL OF THEM STILL too…
THE WAY THEY THEMSELVES DO UNDENIABLY POINT FINGERS HERE TO ME YOURSELF AT YOUR SELF DEFINED OPPONENTS, IN A JUDGMENTAL MANNER, UNLOVING, UNKIND, UNJUSTIFIABLE MANNER IS CLEARLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE NOW TOO.
This personal ACT of yours is also a poor example of any type of professing Christian for all to see on the net.
(Mat 7:16 KJV) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(Mat 7:17 KJV) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
(Mat 7:18 KJV) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(1 Cor 8:1 KJV) Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
(1 Cor 13:1 KJV) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
(1 Cor 13:2 KJV) And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
(1 Cor 13:3 KJV) And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
(1 Cor 13:4 KJV) Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
(1 Cor 13:8 KJV) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
(1 Cor 13:13 KJV) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(Col 3:14 KJV) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
(1 Tim 4:12 KJV) but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
(2 Tim 2:22 KJV) Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
(1 Pet 4:8 KJV) And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(1 Pet 5:14 KJV) Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
(2 Pet 1:7 KJV) And to godliness ( add) brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(Rev 2:4 KJV) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
(Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(1 John 4:12 KJV) If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
I too would rightfully see a sermon from even them all than hypocritically only hear it preached again from these critics.. it is time they firstly had applied the Bible for all to see.
http://postedat.wordpress.com/
Jan, thanks for that link. It wouldnt surprise me if someone will now accuse you of insults, lies and abuse for providing such relevant information
thenoneconformer, do you apply all those scriptures to anyone who speaks out against those who deny the virgin birth? The bodily resurrection of Christ? or those like William Branham who denied the trinity? Yes we love them but should we just say nothing and just cite all those scruptures instead?
Strange how Benny Hinn can wish for a holy ghost machine gun to blow believers heads off, John Kilpatrick can prophesy doom on any believer who questions him, or Todd can run and kick a believer in the face all in the name of ‘love’,
On the other hand, anyone who dares question these antics are supplied a list of scriptures about ‘loving’ those who are spreading these destructive doctrine.
Its not unloving to test the spirits, its not unloving to try to snatch a brother from the fire, its not unloving to warn others of people who are rising up amongst us and bringing in destructive doctrine or heresies. It is NOT unloving to ask for evidence of the 22 resurrections, it would be unloving to pretend they have happened when they havent!
It is destructive to say Jesus healing a blind man by spitting in some mud is the equivalent of Todd kicking people in the face and groin. As if somehow Jesus spat in the mud and then punched the man in the eye! ugh
It is destructive to tell people they are healed when infact they are not.
This list could go on…
nonconformer,
It is interesting that you use Matthew 7:16-18 to make your point that those of us who oppose false teaching are being unloving. Apparently your point is that Jesus was talking about knowing us by our fruits – and those fruits should be what you call being loving.
Of course you didn’t use the verse right before those, Matthew 7:15:
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really wolves who will tear you apart”.
The FALSE PROPHETS are the ones that JESUS SAID we will know by their fruits.
In the verses YOU used, Jesus is telling us how to identify false prophets, the VERY THING that you seem to think that we shouldn’t do.
It’s amazing that you can’t see that the VERY VERSES THAT YOU USE actually prove how wrong YOU are.
But we shouldn’t be surprised. I have found that one of the main ‘fruits’ of those who support this so-called revival is an almost total reinventing of scripture.
Uh, need more proof…..
Pete How convenient the regards were addressed towards Pete rather for Jan had substantiated what the bashers, bullies were really like.. how they also do not use the Bible too often now too, and rather abuse it and others,
Is that clear enough for you now?
http://postedat.wordpress.com/
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really wolves who will tear you apart”.
anyone who abuses another person is a false prphets, false teacher, any of the critics now included..
Those who divert the topics, distort the post, bash any others except themselves included
(1 Pet 5:14 KJV) Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
(2 Pet 1:7 KJV) And to godliness ( add) brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(Rev 2:4 KJV) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
(Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(1 John 4:12 KJV) If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
I too would rightfully see a sermon from even them all than hypocritically only hear it preached again from these critics.. it is time they firstly had applied the Bible for all to see.
yes I still do prefer to talk about what the Bible says.. not mere men’s views.. and that we all do live the Bible still too not merely preach to others.
Sow, show your love to others even here.. mandatory
http://postedat.wordpress.com/
[...] http://charismania.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/the-smiths-todd-bentley-and-one-moment-in-time-christian... [...]
In an attempt to try to prove that we are somehow not being loving by exposing Bentley, you use this verse:
Rev 2:4
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Obviously, you are implying here that those who speak out against these so-called revivals have left their first love by doing so.
Again, we only have to travel forward two verses to see how totally off you are:
Rev. 2:4
I know all the things you do, I have seen your hard work and patient endurance. I know that you DON’T TOLERATE EVIL PEOPLE. YOU HAVE EXAMINED THE CLAIMS OF THOSE WHO SAY THEY ARE APOSTLES BUT ARE NOT. YOU HAVE DISCOVERED THAT THEY ARE LIARS.
Once again, the very thing that you condemn us for is the VERY THING that Jesus approves in them. And also, once again, it’s all right there in the very text that YOU USED.
Exposing false prophets in the church is often messy, sometimes combative, and can not be done by gathering ’round the fire singing Kumbaya. But, however, it is both COMENDED and COMMANDED by our Lord Jesus Christ.
You would do well not to attempt to get Christians not to do the very things that Jesus said we should.
Amazing how I tend to post the same response to the same related subjects on various sites I tend to visit , one site accepts the message and me,
but clearly the other one hates me and the message.. the response to me shows a lot about the responder.
and some of the inacceptable responding bullies, bashers who try their false personal attacks on me now cause I had stepped on their toes, tyhey do not even know me well enough to make any kind of personal judgmental bashings upon me never mind doing it now in public too
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long suffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
http://anyonecare.wordpress.com
http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/
http://groups.msn.com/HolySpiritCome
http://groups.msn.com/AFOLLOWEROFCHRIST
http://groups.msn.com/CanadaToday6
http://postedat.wordpress.com/
Another Bully, your screen name is quite agressive, almost Todd like, but thanks for the link, I’ll pass it on to all
Andy great posts.
Though it appears that context means so little unless it has the pretext “boom BAHM boom BaAamM glug glug glug”
Pete,
I went to the website and posted my corrections to nonconformers misuse of scripture. Of course it was taken off the comments.
Guess he doesn’t want those who read his site to know the truth of God’s Word.
Which is kind of odd, since Bentley supporters are universally known for their love of God’s Word.
Pete, Andypro the last posts sound like bad little children a Gossip column as opposed to any kind of real, Christian, or Bible discussions..
1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The mind alone cannot fathom the deep mystery of the Trinity. It must be “spiritually discerned”.
MANY SCRIPTURES REVEAL THE FULL TRINITY. (From the King James Version unless otherwise indicated)
Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven [God the Father's], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
John 14:16-17 And I [Jesus] will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth…
1 Corinthians 12:4-6 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God [the Father] which worketh all in all.
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God [the Father], and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him [Jesus] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 4:4-6 (NIV) There is one body and one Spirit — just as you were called to one hope when you were called — one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Summary: The bible clearly teaches us that there is One God. The Bible also reveals that there are three divine Persons (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) and that “these three are one”. Not three Gods, but one God, eternally existent in three Persons — the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
http://www.jimfeeney.org/trinity.html
Now that is what I meanby having a Biblical Christian discussion.
nonconformer,
You should change your name to nonsensical.
In your last post, #19, you listed a whole bunch of scriptures in order to try to make the point that those who warn about Todd Bentley were not being loving or biblical.
I then refuted your BLATENT MISUSE of scripture by showing how you ignored the meaning of the passages you quoted by taking them out of their context in order to try and twist them to say what you wanted them to.
I then went to the BIBLE ITSELF, and the words of JESUS HIMSELF, to prove how you misinterpreted and twisted scripture to prove your point.
Then, do you respond by repenting of twisting scripture for your own ends? Nope, instead, you give us a biblical defintion of the trinity that seems correct, but HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID!!!!!
Someone once said (post #19), that there are those who:
“Those who divert the topics, distort the post, bash any others except themselves included”
I found it astounding that the SCRIPTURES THAT YOU CHOSE destroy your arguments that you attempted to make, and now I find it even more astouding that you claim to not like it when people ‘divert the topics, and distort the post’ and then you do THE EXACT SAME THING.
But the most amazing thing of all is this:
No matter how many times you try to post these idiotic things, no matter how many people continue to biblically show you that you are wrong, no matter how many times you are lovingly shown your lack of understanding, you’ll still think you’re right, and NO ONE WILL EVER CHANGE YOUR MIND.
It’s probably a terrible thing to be in the position you’re in, but worse yet, it’s even more terrible not to realize it.
nonconformer,
Just FYI – and I mean no unkindness by this – I put your comments into permanent moderation because quite honestly, much of what you’ve tried to post has not made any sense and has had little to do with the topic/conversation at hand.
It has nothing to do with the fact that you disagree with this site or the others who post here.
(Matter of fact, I could not even tell whether you were agreeing or disagreeing! I’m now thinking you’re trying to rebuke me and the others, but I’m still not sure.)
I don’t mind dissenting opinions. I really don’t. After all, I have this blog set to allow anyone to comment – not even “first time commenters” require my approval for their comments to show up. If I really were trying to stifle debate or “the other side” of the Todd Bentley/Charismaniac argument, I certainly would do more to control the conversation, wouldn’t I?
But from now on, rambling rants will just be deleted. I believe you have your own website anyway, and that’d probably be the best place to try to share your…er, unique…point of view.
charismania,
THANKS A LOT FOR RUINING IT FOR ME!
A few more back and forths with nonconformer and I’d have a whole chapter in my book entitled, “What Hyper-charasmatic Teaching Has Done To Biblical Discourse”
Heck, I had even planned to just put up a string of random bible verses from both the Old and New Testament in response to his next post. I would then finish it off by claiming that he can’t understand what I’m saying because he doesn’t understand the trinity.
And now, since I can’t respond to his posts anymore, I gonna have to go out and mow the lawn or something. Thanks.
PS: Seriously, it really is important that you keep warning the church. People I know and those at my church are really flocking and fawining over this stuff, and the more info the better.
andypro,
It’s amazing the Biblical illiteracy. Many on the pro-Bentley side tend to quote scripture which actually disproves their own point. Amazing!
noneconformer/another bully/…please lighten up! With all due respect, I can understand Todd Bentley when he is speaking in tongues better than I can understand your post.
You address the Trinity with accuracy, but my point is that Todd Bentley promotes the ‘anointing’ of the dead William Branham, Branham was anti trinitarian, he rejected the scriptures that YOU quoted. How can a man so spiritually dim like Branham be credited by Todd and the other counterfiet revivalist as a great prophet of God? He prophesied falsely about 1975 just like JWs did.
I wont expect an answer from you anytime soon. But if you can come with a list of scriptures that say false prophecy is rewarded with the blessings of revival, then please enlighten us and post them here.
(p.s sorry if you find my post offensive, they are not intended to be this way).
Ditto to what Charismania & lee posted!
*laughing at andypro comments* that last post cracked me up.
With all seriousness though, I think noneconformer is probably a good guy trying his best to make a point but failing in the process.
What happened here today? Wow its amazing how we can post a link with Todd’s own words in it, and just ask people to view it and decide for themselves, and the Todd supporters come out of the wood work claiming we are the ones bashing and criticizing. They are the ones who are posting the nasty comments.
Today a woman at work who I have know for a long time, we went to the same charismatic church years ago, well she told me she has Direct TV and watched the revival this weekend for the first time. She said the anointing was so strong through the TV that she got drunk in the spirit. Because of that, she believes the revival is of God and everything is true. This is the typical charismatic Christian of today. They know nothing about what the Bible says about false prophets, deceptive doctrines and people preaching a different Jesus. Its really sad. So many are not researching this thing and just jumping in. My friend at work said she is GOING TO GET SOME. She can’t wait to go to Lakeland and going as soon as possible.
oh dear sorry to hear that Jan, its sad when our friends fall blindly into this. I also have a friend who recently went to one of these meetings in England and was so dis-appointed when he didnt fall under the fire while everyone around him was flat out. I was like “praise the Lord you didnt get it” he was like “huh?” We’re having ongoing discussions now but he is holding me at arms length.
I swear a lot of brainwashing is going on here, its like trying to help people out of cults with the fear they have to question these things.
Jan & Pete,
Please know that I’m praying fervently for your friends and for all the other folks being misled by the anti-Biblical teachings promoted at Lakeland (calling down God’s Glory, calling down angels, …). My heart truly grieves for these folks. I’m also praying for Todd & his associates, and have been sending them warnings and Scripture references to point them to the truth. It is my hope they will return to preaching only from God’s Word, the source of all Truth. Thanks so much, Watchmen, for keeping the Body aware of current trends in the Church. God Bless you, protect you, and keep you always in His Bosom. -Brenda
Hello Brenda, and thanks for such an encouraging post. Its sad enough to see it on tv so when it reaches to the homes of those we care for, its gutting.
God bless you too
Hello Everyone:
New article, “Wendy Alec: Prophet of God?” now online at
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/WendyAlec1.htm .
God bless,
Bud
Thanks Brenda. I live in Florida, so its easy for friends and acquaintences to go to the revival. Its a 3 hour drive. I know many who have gone and they say the anointing is VERY strong and from that alone, they believe its of God. We have been conditioned to these supernatural manifestations by Rodney Howard Browne and the prior revivals. I don’t know about other places, but Charismatics here like to get “drunk and slain in the Spirit.” I never felt comfortable with my friends running after these anointing services. Everyone laughs and starts manifesting uncontrollably. I remember I went to one of these services with some friends, and the minister had a prayer line. His mother came up to me and told me to just lay down on the floor now, before he prayed for me, to prevent me from getting hurt by falling on the tile floor. I was very turned off and left the meeting, never went back. This has been a conditioning that has clouded people’s judgment. They think if they feel the presence or anointing, then it must be real and must be God. They don’t even question it.
Bud, Thank you for sharing that link. If people believe Jesus would physically walk on the stage, then they have given themselves over to believe whatever comes from the pulpit. This is how cults use mind control. Todd should not have read that email. Why would he? Even he didn’t believe it. He tried to change the meaning of the email. I don’t want to call it a prophesy because clearly … its not.
see I dunno why people protect their former false teaching churches by hiding their identities. I’d get more out of being able to go to their site and research what they teach and figure out myself what is unbiblical about it. (in addition to what you mention here)
It wasn’t an Evangelical Covenant church was it? I can’t locate one that isn’t having trouble with some error. The entire denomination is hard on the heels of the ELCA in plunging down the path to apostasy.
Hi, Paula…
I’m not sure if you’re asking me (”Charismania” ) personally which church we attended. But in case you are – no, it was NOT an Evangelical Covenant church. We attended a fairly large, non-denominational Charismatic/Pentecostal church in a suburb of a large-ish city.
It’s difficult to explain, in a way that would make sense to someone who hasn’t been in our same position, why we chose to remain anonymous and not “name names.” Our motivation, at least initially, was fear. When we first left our “Charismaniac” church, the pastor and his family loomed in our thoughts as being far more powerful and important than they actually are. We realize that now, to the point where we almost don’t care about the consequences of just declaring exactly who we are talking about. But at the time we started the site, it was unthinkable to speak out against our former pastor. We were gripped by fear of what he’d think, and we were even afraid on a personal level, like someone would come after us.
I mean, certainly there had to be others who had left. We personally knew of many, many people who had been faithful members and then just disappeared. Yet none of them had ever spoken out against the stuff that went on at our former church. There was literally NO “bad press” against our pastor and/or his family. We know that it’s not possible that this is because there’s actually no reason for bad press. There are plenty of hurt and disgruntled people out there.
We figured that it must be because they’d been intimidated into silence. When we first decided to tell our story, we were afraid of what they could…somehow…DO to us.
That was then.
Now? Well, sometimes I think that it would be great to just let loose and say exactly who we’re talking about and what church and everything.
But…then I get to thinking that there is a lot more power in offering up more general truths. We continue to receive email and comments from folks who have experienced very similar things, only not necessarily in our former church. The elements of “Charismania” are all over the place – in churches all across the country. We are addressing very widespread problems, and I think it’s almost more helpful to speak anonymously and more generically.
I think there are a number of characteristics that could help people to identify if they are in a dysfunctional church. A couple of these traits would be:
–Are there a lot of family connections among your church leaders? (If yes, then you might be in a Charismaniac church.)
–Does your pastor answer to anyone? Is there any sort of accountability, aside from his own hand-picked board made up of his friends? (If no, then you might be in a Charismaniac church.)
Charismania,
I also went to a charismatic church like yours. It had a lot of members, a school, a Christian radio station and the pastors had POSITION. They were in control of everything. They were and still are the owners of the church, even though the members built it, as well as the school and the radio station, without pay. The time was all donated by people who already worked 40 hour a week jobs. And the supplies to build it came through the congregation’s building fund commitments.
If anyone ever questioned the pastors about anything or questioned other members, they were being critical and causing division, and that person soon disappeared. So, most members stayed and suffered in silence. This church had all the popular Christian teachers, prophetic ministries and evangelists and raked in the money.
Many people left the church and the majority of them left wounded. Some have never gotten over the hurts. The past members get together and discuss the pain they endured from 15 and 20 years ago! Many ex members stopped going to church or even believing in church, yet they are still Christians and love the Lord. This church came out of the sheep/shepard teachings in the 70s.
Charismania
It’s funny how Melanie did a “drive by” and then split the seen. And how that non-conformer will not directly answer any questions or give responses that are actually “related” to the scriptural defenses given. My discernment and former involvement in satanism tells me that he is not just a spiritually deceived person with A.D.D., but on the contrary is probably a “plant”. Whose comments have been sown to aggravate and direct the blog down “rabbit trails” on purpose. Just some food for thought brother.
Danyael
Danyael,
I’d agree with you.
In “Nonconformer’s” defense, after I put him in permanent moderation, he did try to return and comment again. I deleted his comment, though, because it rambled and made no sense.
Jan,
I’m so sorry to hear about the damage done at your former church. That is really tough!
Hey I have a quick question.
What does ‘good and saucy’ mean in the USA?
Click on my name for a new youtube to see why I am asking. In England ‘good and saucy’ has sexual implications.
Sorry to seem so inappropriate, but it may mean something totally different in the USA?
Hi Pete. In the USA ‘good and saucy’ means ‘good and drunk.’ At least that’s the only way I have heard it used. I hope you are doing well. God bless you as you use your site to warn people of the dangers of T.B.’s teachings and point people to the Truth of God’s Word.
oh i seee, it certainly doesnt mean that in England. haha.
Maybe I’ll take that video down, the English would raise a few eyebrows if I leave it up but it has a totally different meaning here.
Hope all is well
Pete…”"”"Oh I seeee,”"” …lol…Thanks for making me laugh! I think that’s a good idea to take it down, too. People in America would say, “Whaaaat??” to your comment about what he said as being”blasphemous.” I DO like the comments you add to the back of the videos and the verses you insert in them as well. …One video that you might consider adding is on You Tube…”Spinning Head Prophet.” …I don’t know if you have seen that one yet, but this one really bothers me!! I commented on that video on one of my posts. This woman, is giving a “word from the lord” (not OUR Lord) over T.B. …and almost the whole time she is speaking over him, her head is shaking back and forth sooo fast, that it looks humanly impossible to do without it being caused by some other force, …and I don’t believe it was from the God WE serve! …. I’m still praying for you and your friend.
Hi Living for His Glory
I’m familiar with that woman, Stacey Cambpell, she was on the scene back in the 90s with the Toronto Blessing. I think she was heavily pregnant then and carrying on in the exact same way.
They call her a ‘prophet’ because she shakes like that.
*roll eyes*
Hi again, Pete. “”*roll eyes*”" …Thanks for making my computer experiences more realistic! S.C. …She’s the one…I had her name written down in all my notes I take as I do searches on the Internet, but I couldn’t find it when I was posting to you. … Actually, the reason I am posting back to you is this …I just remembered something concerning T.B.’s meaning of ’saucy’ …it does not have sexual implications, however, you may want to KEEP the video up and add a more detailed message in the background of the video. …To make a long story short, his term ’sauce’ refers to ‘the anointing of God’, and the way he speaks of God’s anointing in that way IS blasphemous, …or at the very least … a deep lack of respect for God! …I had heard an interview on WAY OF THE MASTER RADIO(.COM) between the talk show host, Todd Friel, and Justin Peters(.org) … and Justin shared how he had gone to Lakeland and how T.B. had talked about “walking in the sauce” and said “…”sauce” is their word for the anointing of God.” I just wanted to post you back a.s.a.p. to give you that important info.
Pete. I know you’re busy, but please give me a quick post back to let me know if you got the information on the above post (#49). There’s a big difference in what I originally told you “sauce” meant and what I had remembered he meant by it. …Thank you, and thanks for posting that verse about “making a right judgement” to Sue. That verse crossed my mind, but I forgot to include it. ……………….. God Bless You, And Use You To Continue To Bless Others With Your Words Of Encouragement, And The Truth Of God’s Word
Oh I missed that post Living. Thanks for that. I have taken it down but the same statement is in another vid I have on there “pastors to avoid in England..”
It is utter disgust that they refer to the work of the Holy Spirit as ’sauce’ yuk. I have heard him saying “thick honey ” “firecrackers” and other disrespectful terms. But thats his fill, I have decided he doesnt know any better because he doesnt know God.
I have added more vids on Stacey Campbell
Keep up the good work, its always encouraging to pop back here and see people standing against this.
Hi Pete. Thanks for taking time to post back. I agree… it is disgusting and disrespectful that they refer to the work of the Holy Spirit as ’sauce.’ Let’s just keep praying that God will open the eyes of all involved and the Holy Spirit will lead them to repent and view and speak of God as the Holy, Awesome God Whom He is!! …Keep up the good work on your site of informing people with truth, and may God continue to use you to speak truth and words of encouragement to people on this site. Take care, Pete.
Todd is now wearing a t-shirt that has a drawing of a hand on the back and in the middle of the hand, in large letters it says, BAM! We need to order one ASAP!!! LOL!
Hi Jan. I hope you are doing well. …I like to laugh just like everyone else, however, I find this VERY offensive and VERY disrespectful to the God we serve. I agree with other comments that have been made in the past… “This is becoming more and more like the WWF.” God’s Word says, “…whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.” (1 Corinthians 10:31) …God is not receiving any glory by ANY of this. (I posted back to your post to me, I don’t know if you saw that or not, but please know I care about you and my heart goes out to you for all you have been through.) God Bless You, Jan
Don’t worry LFHG,
I would NEVER wear a t-shirt like that. It just shows that they are now commercializing and selling the revival. Soon they might have one that says sheeka-boom-ba and also Todd bobble head dolls with the head bobbing from side to side. I’ve noticed that most of the speakers at the revival shake their heads back and forth exactly like Todd does. It must be contagious.
I’m not offended over it, but I do feel very grieved that so many people are jumping in without even questioning. I felt a discernment or caution even before I saw any of the T.B. YouTubes on the internet. I wonder why others don’t have that inner witness too? I hope this blog will get people thinking about it.
Thanks for commenting above. I’ve got to go back to work now.
God Bless U2.
Jan
How does this bring glory to God? Is my heart so hard that I can’t see how wonderful this service is?
vhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHxDVdw4Bs&feature=related
Sorry the link didn’t post right. Please give me some feedback. Is this God moving?
Hi Jan. No, this is NOT God moving…not the God WE serve. These people are being emotionally manipulated by this man. When he is blowing, he is transferring a false anointing on these people. You can go on You Tube and find videos with the same things happening in “new age” circles. God is NOT receiving any glory by this. Where is the reading of God’s Word, where is the brokenness over sin, where is the praises crying out to our God Who is SO worthy to be praised???!!! Where is the passion to see the lost come to know there is hope in this dark and hopeless world??? Your heart is not hard; you have discernment like we ALL need. People are on the road to hell and God’s desire is for us to reach them with the good news of the gospel, not sitting somewhere having an “experience.” This is one of my favorite portions of Scripture, and God has put this cry within my heart, and it should be the cry within EVERY believers heart… “For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, and therefore all died. And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him Who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, Who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And HE HAS COMMITTED TO US THE MESSAGE OF RECONCILIATION. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making His appeal through us. WE IMPLORE YOU ON CHRIST’S BEHALF: BE RECONCILED TO GOD. God made Him Who knew no sin to be a sin offering for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:14-21) God Bless You, Jan.
I have to say LFHG, that I attended the revival in Pensacola several times. I never saw people acting like this at the revival. I only saw one person shaking out of the whole packed out church. Steve Hill did preach on sin and repentence. In fact, the atmosphere was so heavy with the feeling of holiness, that if there was any sin in your life, you would feel convicted of it just being there. It was much different from what is going on today in this revival.
I guess they feel like they don’t need to preach about sin and repentence because most of the people attending are already saved and just want a “touch” from God, or what they think is a touch from God. My biggest concern is, if they want to have a drunken party, what about the visitors? How does it affect them? How can you bring your parents or friends that you have been witnessing to? They will think its all craziness and be turned off even more from Christianity. I don’t think this behavior is a good witness to unbelievers. I brought someone to my previous charismatic church and when the pastor came back from Lakeland she stood up and said she wanted to impart the fire to everyone. The church went into a frenzy and my friend ran out the back door.
God bless,
Jan
Jan