I decided to take a break today from discussing Todd Bentley and the “Florida Outpouring” so that I could bring you documented proof of the sort of greed for money that we encountered during our time at Living Word Church (a pseudonym).
I’ve described before, in a post entitled Asking For It, just how Pastor Smith (another pseudonym) and his family grubbed for money for themselves.
Here, for your viewing pleasure (click on the link), is an actual image of the letter we received about ten days ago:
Something to note: Although this letter is ostensibly signed from the church “staff,” the truth of the matter is that Pastor Smith and the rest of the Smith family are in absolute, total control of everything that the church does. As someone who occasionally used to volunteer in the church office, I know firsthand how NOTHING – not even a postcard advertising Vacation Bible School - was sent out from the church without Pastor Smith’s final approval. Therefore, to say that this birthday card shower is a “surprise” is an absolute, total lie.
The only surprise for the Smiths would be if the congregation did NOT celebrate their birthdays!
My husband and I were joking the other day that they probably plan vacations and major purchases around these “love offerings,” seeing as how a conservative estimate of their “haul” is somewhere in the $10,000 range, quite possibly a whole lot more.
I wonder what the tax laws are when it comes to not-for-profit organizations using their postage meters to solicit personal gifts? The staff members who wrote, printed, folded, stuffed, and mailed these letters, all while on the church’s time clock - how does that factor into the tax code? Do the Smiths report this major source of income?
Just wonderin’…
Inappropriate.
This is a typical example of using the sheep. It would have been better not to say anything and just invite everyone to cake after the church service. If anyone wanted to give the pastor and his son a birthday card (which I am sure many would…) that would be their own decision.
This is a method of control…the leadership making decisions to get what they want and telling the church what to do. (as if no one would have thought of it on their own). Maybe they should have just taken up an offering for the Pastor instead of this invitation being mailed out.
Jan,
I agree. I never understood the need to remind people that they could give a financial gift. Isn’t that fact obvious? Is there really anyone so dumb that they wouldn’t know they can put money in a birthday card?
We would also be regaled from the pulpit with stories of all the luxuries lavished on Pastor Smith during these times. For instance, during one birthday, a church member “surprised” Pastor Smith by redecorating his office with all new furniture. My husband and I had seen his office not long before the redo, and it was already quite luxurious. Yet they got rid of that furniture and replaced it with better stuff.
There was definitely a vibe that those who gave generously to the pastors would receive more attention and acceptance. Money talked there.
I wonder if you went to the same church I used to go to. It sounds so similar. The Pastor’s wife used to get up and tell us that God had the mall built just for her. They used to take trips to Disneyworld with their children and stay in the expensive hotels in the parks for 2 weeks at a time, telling us it was a gift from God for their pleasure because he loved them so much. Guess where the money came from to pay for their lavish vacation? Our tithes.
It made me sick too. I totally know how you feel.
I’m rather blue tonight and looking back over alot of things as I prepare for a counseling session tomorrow. I’ve left the church and sought counseling to “reprogram” myself after five years of “charismaniac” teachings, including those that if I gave more and more, God would bless me, restore twice as much to me as I lost in my divorce, blah blah blah.
I’ve realized something important tonight: Except for paying off alot of debt and losing alot of weight, I really haven’t been taking care of myself the past five years. I’ve been too busy taking care of everyone else — my son, my ex-husband, my family, my former employer who hated my guts, the church. I’ve spent all this time giving myself to people who could care less about what I need as long as I continue to meet THEIR needs.
I’ve also been giving money to pastors and church staffs who are happy to thunder about how I was “robbing God” because I couldn’t give 10% of my income to them, even though that would mean stealing from other business owners by not paying my bills. These pastors are doing the exact things you described above: taking great vacations three times a year, living in large and expensive houses, driving new cars, etc. In the meantime, I haven’t been on a vacation in more than six years, and now I’m struggling to hang on to my house.
I’m tired of watching all these “christians” pour their time and money out on their wealthy friends, while the truly poor are still struggling. I’m better off than many people and I am grateful for that. But I still desperately need help — emotionally, spiritually and yes, financially. The church has failed me in all three areas. I don’t know if I’ll ever go back.
TLC,
Your name is interesting, because I feel from the words you just wrote that you could use a little “TLC”!
My heart aches for you right now. It’s so difficult to come out of Charismania. I know exactly how hard it can be. The worst part is trying to figure out which parts of Christianity were real, and which parts were just a bunch of manipulative Scripture-twisting so that the pastor could line his own pockets.
(I still struggle with that one.)
Just know that you are not alone, and that God is still with you.
Jan,
Hmmm…seriously, it DOES sound like we went to the same church! Our pastor’s wife used to make some of those same remarks! Like about the mall…and Disneyworld…hmmm…
I want to send this pastor a birthday present. I’m thinking a mirror maybe.
Pete,
Did everyone go to Lakeland for vacation?
More likey “had it up to here” with this Bentley nonesense
My youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ahouseisnotahome
Hope everyone is doing well
We dealt with this year after year. We usually had some grand party and if you were invited and did not come you would get put on the outcast list. Sometimes these parties by themselves were very expensive.
One fathers day party was fifty dollars per person plus you were asked to bring a special gift. The greatest of all parties was to be the one celebrating our pastors 25th anniversary. It was to be a gala event costing three hundred dollars per person and you were required to wear a formal gown and tux. The pastors family was also asking for the largest cash gift that we had ever given to the pastor to be presented to him. When I questioned the the purpose and reason for such a party in one of our staff meetings I was met with much opposition. I thought that we would be making the people who could not afford to come to the party feel little and down cast. We also had just been told that the church did not have money for several outreach and mission projects. The next week I was fired from my staff position because I had a “bad attitude.” My family had put our lives and finances into this church for 24 years.
Oh by the way they never had the party and they lost many long time loyal church members during that time. The former “mega-church” now runs less than 500 on Sunday.
Also a note to you Charismania, I do believe that your ex- church and our ex-church have the exact same name.
Thanks for all of the work that you do to expose error and show the truth. It is good to be free.
GF
Hi Pete. I guess I’m the only one who decided not to “go and get some” in Lakeland. …Thank you for letting us know about the discussion on “Crosstalk.” I listened to it yesterday, and was very glad to hear another talk show host willing to speak out against this “revival,” besides H.H. …I was also glad to hear another pastor speak out against it as well. I hope a lot of people listened who think this “revival” is of God, because they had a lot of good things to say to cause them to consider otherwise. They also played a lot of good clips as well, so it wasn’t just their words, and God’s Word, (which SHOULD be enough for people to realize the things happening in Lakeland are not found in Scripture but rather in the world of the occult.) …I also watched the video about T.B. saying the “revival” is coming to the UK, (sorry about that, Pete.) and watched as the man stood there twitching and jerking his head. I just don’t get it!! How do they think God gets Glory with this kind of behavior!! Why would people even WANT to act this way! When Moses was in the presence of God, his face radiated God’s Glory(Exodus 34:29); Moses did not come down from the mountain manifesting drunken laughter and spasmotic jerking! And when God told Moses that He would allow Moses to see His Glory, but only the back of Him, (Exodus 33:12-23) Moses was in the very immediate presence of God and did not exhibit any strange manifestations when he finally came down. …”When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD. When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him.” (Exodus 33:29,30…Notice that God’s Word did NOT record them observing anything other than seeing his face was radiant; Moses was not twitching, laughing, etc. … On another somewhat related note…I put in a request for my pastor to speak out against this “revival” just to make people aware of this. I also included some information in case he hasn’t heard about it, because anyone who I mention it to, has not heard about it. When I share it with my friends, and express my concerns about it, and share Scriptures as well, they don’t seem to be alarmed about it. Hopefully it’s just that their focus is on God’s Word and they don’t think very much about the dangers that can creep into a church. But then there is danger in being complacent;we must continue to have discernment and be aware of what is happening, especially since it seems more and more possible that Jesus could come back in OUR lifetime with the condition our world is in today. We need to expose lies and deception with the truth of God’s Word;we need to defend the faith when we see the foundations of our faith being under attack. I think that’s why most of us are so involved in tracking what is going on in Lakeland. … I go to a very strong Bible church where we take books of the Bible and go verse by verse, and I can’t imagine this “revival” being accepted by the pastors here. If “the fire” does somehow get in, I guess I’ll be finding yet another church to go to. I am hoping at least my pastor will address it in the opening of one of his sermons and share a lot of Scripture to lay a solid foundation in people’s minds, so they will not be deceived by any “counterfeit revival.” …….God bless you, Pete. Have a safe and wonderful 4th!! Charismania, thank you again for having your site for us to vent our frustrations and concerns and to share information with one another concerning this “revival”. Thank you also for bringing us good Biblical information through Pastor Gary’s articles.
Oops!! Pete, I just remembered…you live in the UK!! Have a nice weekend instead!! … Whomever this applies to… have a safe and wonderful 4th !!
I just wanted to mention to Clarity Rediscovered that these churches with the extravagent techniques for obtaining personal gain from the congregation’s pocketbooks are going to answer to God one day. Many people have been hurt and wounded by these ministries. Just be careful not to harbor bitterness towards them. It can be a lifelong disease. Many people I know here who experienced this kind of ministry have given up on going to church. They don’t believe in church anymore. If you get into a conversation with them, they bring up the past and all the pain they still feel as if it just happened yesterday. I see a danger in this and I’m sure its the devil’s intention to destroy lives. One thing I have learned is NOT to look to ministries, pastors, leaders or any church but to ALWAYS place my loyalty, faith and hope in God alone, through Jesus Christ. If we look to a man, he will fail us and we are making a man (or church) an idol in our lives. Some churches have it backwards. Instead of the leadership serving the body, they think they are on a pedestal to be served by the body. I avoid churches like this. The pastor should be one who is the forerunner and who gets down in the trenches leading by example, not the one who sits high on a throne being pampered by his staff and the congregation.
Another thing I see pastors do is cross over boundaries in counseling. There are trained professional counselors who have degrees for this. There have been many wounded people who make life changing decisions by a pastor’s advice that was not in the person’s best interest. I am not saying don’t listen to a pastor’s advice, I’m just saying don’t always take it as the final word. Go by your gut feelings in a situation and don’t make a decision just because a person in “leadership” in the church told you to.
Finally, we shouldn’t give our personal power over to church leadership, but learn how to hear from God on our own. I can’t completely blame the pastor or leaders for those wounded by the ministry, as they submitted themselves and were a part of the problem. Yes, we can hear the leader’s opinion but leaders are there to guide us. Sometimes they miss it too because they are human and not in our particular situation. A good leader will be open to that and not demanding obedience to their counsel but will support you in your own decision after you pray and carefully weigh your options.
If you see abuse going on by a pastor, or church leadership, shake the dust from your feet and move on. You can’t change the situation and if you speak out about it, they won’t like it and look at you as being disrespectful and causing division.
Jan
Thanks Living for His Glory
I have uploaded a video on youtube about TB coming to england and the pastor he prays for on the video lives approx 15 miles from me. Endure the vid “Todd Bentley bedlam for England’ on youtube and you’ll see the church in action.
Glad you are going to a Church based on the word of God. Its quite difficult to find a good Church where I am but i do fellowship at a free evangelical church and it certainly wont be getting into all of this counterfiet stuff.
I wish we did celebrate the 4th July, everything here carries on as normal.
Good post on leadership Jan!
Hey, Clarity -
Thanks for stopping by. I liked your blog’s most recent post so much that I was going to write and ask if you wouldn’t mind if I quoted portions of it.
Jan, I realize that you probably weren’t saying that WE are bitter for discussing these things, but in case there’s anyone thinking that we ARE motivated out of bitterness, I’d like to clarify that.
We believe that a pastor who asks his congregation to give money to him personally is WRONG. We believe that people should be made aware of just how this is occurring, and how blatant and obvious some Charismaniac pastors are in how they do this.
We also know that at least some folks from our former church do read on this site, and we want to perhaps jolt them a bit and make them see in a new way just how inappropriate it is for a pastor to use his people for personal financial gain.
In other words, we posted a scan of the original letter and are talking about this because we want to help people put a stop to this behavior, either by helping them see that they should not let themselves be pressured into giving gifts, or even by possibly embarrassing pastors into quitting these sorts of solicitations.
I’m not bitter. If I were, I’d be completely done with it all. Instead, I actually think there’s hope that some of the craziness could be changed.
Hi Charismania,
I was not thinking you or other people here are harboring bitterness, but I wanted to touch on that because I have seen people become very bitter towards the pastor, his wife and church in general. My post was not towards your situation, more related to being hurt by these ministries in general. I am glad there is a forum to talk about these things and warn others. I also think its a two way street. People create the power for the pastors who solicit money. They are part of the problem. If they would stop enabling that kind of behavior, it would stop.
So, please keep on speaking out about it.
Blessings,
Jan
Hi, Jan…
That’s what I thought. But I do know what you mean about people who are so bitter that they feel like rejecting all Christianity.
Sometimes I shudder on behalf of these Charismaniac pastors and how far they’ve led untold numbers astray with their abuses of power and authority.
It’s our responsibility as believers to hold to the faith and resist bitterness. But sometimes, it’s easy to see why someone would be bitter…sad to say!
Charismania, Feel free to quote whatever you want. We have quoted you as well. It is nice to have someone else’s perspective about such similar situations.
Jan, As for being “enablers” to the pastoral abuse, I understand what you are saying, but we were too blinded and brainwashed to realize that we were doing that. It is easy to see now, but it wasn’t at the time. We were not intentionally perpetuating the bad behavior of the pastor and other ministers. We felt we had no choice. It was a nightmare of a system.
Charismania and other posters….
It is refreshing to see such wonderful perspectives on “tainted” leaders in the charismatic tradition. While I’m not charismatic, per say, I relate to the move of the Holy Spirit in worship and find myself with charismatic leanings.
Most importantly, I find it refreshing to see objectivity and discernment. Thank you for a refreshing site and topic.
Hi, Marty, and welcome to the site. Thanks for the kind words.
Clarity, I would fully agree with what you said about being blinded and brainwashed. It’s very difficult to explain or understand, but I know exactly what you mean. When we were in the midst of our love and loyalty for our church (which was actually our love and loyalty for our PASTOR and his family, because they made themselves synonymous with the church), we actually DEFENDED these same birthday offerings if anyone would ask us about them.
I mean, I always thought that taking up a collection for yourself – openly asking people to give you money – was a little odd. But because of how much we loved the Smiths, I always thought of their money-grubbing with a sort of indulgent smile, like, “Aww, there they go again!” In a weird way, I believed it was their RIGHT to do this.
I bought into their reasoning because I’d internalized all the stuff we heard from them, over and over again. They had “sacrificed for the anointing,” so they deserved to be blessed. They were our “covering,” and “anointing/blessings flow from the head down,” so if we blessed them, we were in effect blessing ourselves. If we blessed them (financially – it was ALWAYS with material stuff!) we would receive similar blessings. The Bible told us to “give honor where honor is due,” after all.
The Smiths worked very very hard to cultivate the perception of themselves as special, and since we were spending at least 7 hours a week in that environment (our Sundays were completely consumed by church, with the morning service having us at church from 9:30 to about 1:30, and the evening service clocking in from about 6:00 to 9:00), we were very much inundated with the message that the Smith family was a cut above.
It really was like Living Word Church was an alternate universe. The Smith family had their photos plastered throughout the church facility, gorgeously lit (and very retouched!) portraits of themselves that had been taken by the most expensive photographer in town. On the rare occasions that they did mingle with the people in the lobby or stroll throughout the building, they would be accompanied by security people, big guys who volunteered for the privilege of being their bodyguards, fully decked out with Secret Service-like ear pieces and radios. Pastor Smith and his wife were never with the congregation for the entire worship time, instead making a grand, sweeping entrance into the sanctuary about 20 or 30 minutes after we’d started singing.
They always sat on these plush, throne-like chairs on the stage, perched a good 4 feet above the audience. Even that gave them a psychological edge over their people. They wore the best clothing, drove the finest vehicles, lived in a home that was better than the houses of about 99% of their congregation, and went on at least two or three luxury vacations each year to places that most of the rest of us could only dream of visiting. When it was raining, you could watch the bodyguards scurry out with umbrellas to meet the Smiths at their cars, open their doors, and usher them into the building so that they would not get wet.
The celebrity treatment extended to the two Smith sons, who were lauded and applauded for what would have been seen as merely mediocre talents anywhere else.
Like I said, it was like once you walked through the doors of Living Word, you were in another world, a world where regular rules did not apply.
And once you bought into one part of Living Word – like once you believed that Pastor Smith was an amazingly accurate prophet and/or an amazingly “anointed” preacher – you simply bought into all the rest of the celebrity treatment that went along with it.
So I was always uncomfortable with the birthday offerings, but my thinking was so clouded by my belief in Pastor Smith’s anointing that it was like “anointing” somehow trumped all normal standards for good behavior. Like I said, when we were in the midst of our love for the Smiths, we would have defended the birthday offerings as somehow being their right.
It really is like brainwashing. After all the reading I’ve been doing lately about Kundalini manifestations and crowd hypnosis, I’m even beginning to believe that Pastor Smith works some sort of mind control over people, through the use of repetitive music, and through the use of all the psychologically manipulative things the Smith family does to isolate themselves and set themselves apart as special. I also now believe that Pastor Smith just has one of those dynamic and charismatic (lower-case “c” ) personalities that can exert force over others and control them.
One other example, and then I’ll wrap up these musings.
Living Word Church did a “Handkerchief and Anointing Oil” service once a year, during which time every member of the audience would receive a small vial of anointing oil and a hanky that had been prayed over by various visiting ministers. On the night of the hanky service, Pastor Smith and his wife would also pray over the hankies, and then we’d all file up and they would momentarily “lay hands on” each hanky individually. This process was done in a very efficient, orderly way, and we were instructed to keep the line moving. All the handlers and bodyguards and ushers would be enlisted to help in this service.
My husband and Pastor Smith had an interesting friendship, one that was often watched with envy by others who had been at the church longer. Pastor Smith had an obvious soft spot for my husband, which he demonstrated in various ways. One year, during the hanky service, we were among the later ones to walk up with our hankies to receive the 1-second moment of the “laying on of hands” from Pastor Smith.
Pastor Smith had already worked up quite a sweat when we reached the front of the line, and in a gesture that was watched jealously by everybody, Pastor Smith took my husband’s hanky and wiped away the sweat off of his (Smith’s) face, before rather dramatically handing it back to him.
The message was clear – Pastor Smith was so anointed that having his sweat on your prayer hanky gave you a special edge.
In retrospect, it sounds nuts! My husband even jokes now that if anyone else had ever done that to him, he would have punched him.
But at the time, we felt extremely privileged. And just about everyone else in the sanctuary was jealous! They would have done a lot to be able to have the hanky with Pastor Smith’s sweat on it.
Brainwashing. Mind control. It was crazy!
Its idolatry…..
Pastor Smith puts his pants on in the morning and takes a dump just like everyone else.
“”"”"Pastor Smith puts his pants on in the morning and takes a dump just like everyone else.”"”"”
haha
Great testimony Charismania, I think most of us who have been in these type of heavy sheparding movements where brainwashed but didnt know it until we tried thinking for ourselves, then we became dominated by fear of displeasing the Lord by questioning such people. Nice to be free of it all.
You guys are treading on dangerous ground speaking the way you are about the man of God. Yes, he puts his pants on the same way as you, but so did Jesus. The Bible tells us to honor those who teach us. Is not his birthday a time to honor him no matter who sent the letter out? You guys need to check yourself. You sound like wolves. God placed him in leadership and if he feels that he is doing wrong, God will deal with him. I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where it says that the congregtion should deal with him. You need respect for leadership. Maybe you should read the story about Moses, Miriam, and Aaron.
Sharan -
Thanks for your comment, and welcome to the site.
I’m stunned that you think it’s OK for a pastor to use “his” church’s tax-exempt donations to pay for stationery, manpower, and postage so that he can solicit money for himself on his birthday. That is, plain and simple, what Pastor Smith has always done and continues to do. (No doubt they’re already gearing up for the “First Lady’s” birthday which will be happening in a couple of months.) And it is WRONG!
This practice is simply indefensible and absolutely contrary to what the Bible teaches about leadership and money.
Who’s to say, anyway, that God “placed” Pastor Smith in leadership? Lots of despots come to power all over the world. While God will continue to work His purposes through these authorities, that does not mean that the evil they do is done with His approval, or that people should not stand up for what is right.
It is, quite simply, WRONG for a pastor to tell his people to give him birthday gifts. If the congregation wants to honor their pastor on his birthday, that’s great, but it should be something that springs up at least somewhat spontaneously, at the behest of the church members themselves, and NOT because of manipulative tactics like “reminder” letters.
What is especially galling about all this is that the Smiths have more money at their disposal and are in better shape financially than at least 99% of the people whom they TELL to give them gifts. The Smiths also show great favoritism to the people who DO give them stuff.
This is so far removed from Jesus that I almost feel like it’s a desecration to our Savior to suggest that He and Pastor Smith put their pants on in the same way!
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