The other day, my husband and I were musing aloud about our time at Living Word Church (for the record, a pseudonym, as are all other names used here - except for those of widely known celebrity TV preachers). As we reminisced, I had a fleeting thought of a story I’d shared once before, in the “comments” section of another post. When someone new replied to that post recently, I happened to be reminded once more of that same little incident, as I read through the comments again. It now strikes me as so bizarre that I thought I’d resurrect my re-telling from obscurity and turn it into a post. Here it is:
Anointed Sweat?
When we were in the midst of our love and loyalty for our church (which was actually our love and loyalty for our PASTOR and his family, because they made themselves synonymous with the church), we actually DEFENDED these same birthday offerings if anyone would ask us about them.
I mean, I always thought that taking up a collection for yourself – openly asking people to give you money – was a little odd. But because of how much we loved the Smiths, I always thought of their money-grubbing with a sort of indulgent smile, like, “Aww, there they go again!” In a weird way, I believed it was their RIGHT to do this.
I bought into their reasoning because I’d internalized all the stuff we heard from them, over and over again. They had “sacrificed for the anointing,” so they deserved to be blessed. They were our “covering,” and “anointing/blessings flow from the head down,” so if we blessed them, we were in effect blessing ourselves. If we blessed them (financially – it was ALWAYS with material stuff!) we would receive similar blessings. The Bible told us to “give honor where honor is due,” after all.
The Smiths worked very very hard to cultivate the perception of themselves as special, and since we were spending at least 7 hours a week in that environment (our Sundays were completely consumed by church, with the morning service having us at church from 9:30 to about 1:30, and the evening service clocking in from about 6:00 to 9:00), we were very much inundated with the message that the Smith family was a cut above.
It really was like Living Word Church was an alternate universe. The Smith family had their photos plastered throughout the church facility, gorgeously lit (and very retouched!) portraits of themselves that had been taken by the most expensive photographer in town. On the rare occasions that they did mingle with the people in the lobby or stroll throughout the building, they would be accompanied by security people, big guys who volunteered for the privilege of being their bodyguards, fully decked out with Secret Service-like ear pieces and radios. Pastor Smith and his wife were never with the congregation for the entire worship time, instead making a grand, sweeping entrance into the sanctuary about 20 or 30 minutes after we’d started singing.
They always sat on these plush, throne-like chairs on the stage, perched a good 4 feet above the audience. Even that gave them a psychological edge over their people. They wore the best clothing, drove the finest vehicles, lived in a home that was better than the houses of about 99% of their congregation, and went on at least two or three luxury vacations each year to places that most of the rest of us could only dream of visiting. When it was raining, you could watch the bodyguards scurry out with umbrellas to meet the Smiths at their cars, open their doors, and usher them into the building so that they would not get wet.
The celebrity treatment extended to the two Smith sons, young adults who were lauded and applauded for what would have been seen as merely mediocre talents anywhere else.
Like I said, it was like once you walked through the doors of Living Word, you were in another world, a world where regular rules did not apply.
And once you bought into one part of Living Word – like once you believed that Pastor Smith was an amazingly accurate prophet and/or an amazingly “anointed” preacher – you simply bought into all the rest of the celebrity treatment that went along with it.
So even though I was always uncomfortable with the birthday offerings and knew on some deep level that such obvious greed for money was inappropriate, ESPECIALLY for a supposed “man of God,” my thinking was so clouded by my belief in Pastor Smith’s anointing that it was like “anointing” somehow trumped all normal standards for good behavior. Like I said, when we were in the midst of our love for the Smiths, we would have defended the birthday offerings as somehow being their right.
It really is like brainwashing. After all the reading I’ve been doing lately about Kundalini manifestations and crowd hypnosis, I’m even beginning to believe that Pastor Smith works some sort of mind control over people, through the use of repetitive music, and through the use of all the psychologically manipulative things the Smith family does to isolate themselves and set themselves apart as special. I also now believe that Pastor Smith just has one of those dynamic and charismatic (lower-case “c” ) personalities that can exert force over others and control them.
One other example, and then I’ll wrap up these musings.
Living Word Church did a “Handkerchief and Anointing Oil” service once a year, during which time every member of the audience would receive a small vial of anointing oil and a hanky that had been prayed over by various visiting ministers. On the night of the hanky service, Pastor Smith and his wife would also pray over the hankies, and then we’d all file up and they would momentarily “lay hands on” each hanky individually. This process was done in a very efficient, orderly way, and we were instructed to keep the line moving. All the handlers and bodyguards and ushers would be enlisted to help in this service.
My husband and Pastor Smith had an interesting friendship, one that was often watched with envy by others who had been at the church longer. Pastor Smith had an obvious soft spot for my husband, which he demonstrated in various ways. One year, during the hanky service, we were among the later ones to walk up with our hankies to receive the 1-second moment of the “laying on of hands” from Pastor Smith.
Pastor Smith had already worked up quite a sweat when we reached the front of the line, and in a gesture that was watched jealously by everybody, Pastor Smith took my husband’s hanky and wiped away the sweat off of his (Smith’s) face, before rather dramatically handing it back to him.
The message was clear – Pastor Smith was so anointed that having his sweat on your prayer hanky gave you a special edge.
In retrospect, it sounds nuts! My husband even jokes now that if anyone else had ever done that to him, he would have punched him.
But at the time, we felt extremely privileged. And just about everyone else in the sanctuary was jealous! They would have done a lot to be able to have the hanky with Pastor Smith’s sweat on it.
Brainwashing. Mind control. It was crazy!

I relate, I relate, I relate.. every word.. down to annointing hankerchief.. I left our church 4 months ago because the pastor was sooo into Todd Bently so much so he left South Africa to go and be annointed… I am under deconstructrion.. you can check out my blog if you like.. http://www.discernment4truth.blogspot.com
Thanks for your blog!
So many times in reading your posts I literally ‘cringe.’ But don’t get me wrong. I don’t cringe for what you did. I cringe because of the very same things I participated in. I call it the Cringe Factor. It is memories that you wish you could erase from your mind and those around that saw you participating.
This was a big cinge factor post for me.
Hi, Barb…
I know exactly what you mean, about the Cringe Factor! I think that this is precisely the main reason why I feel compelled to talk about this stuff. For me, it’s somehow like openly probing and discussing this foolishness – and admitting how silly and deceived we were – has been part of the healing process.
I also harbor this secret hope that maybe, just MAYBE, publicly talking about it, even anonymously, might shame the Smiths into changing their ways. I know that several people currently still attending Living Word have read here in the past, and some of the things we post are published with the thought that if enough Living Word members would wake up and call the Smiths to accountability, maybe the Smiths would themselves wake up.
I really have struggled in my thinking in this area – I keep going back and forth between believing that the Smiths have been Lone Rangers for so long, with ZERO accountability in their own little kingdom that they’ve created, that maybe they’re not even aware of how utterly tranparent and open they’ve become in their greed for money for themselves. I harbor a hope that if someone would just help them SEE their bad behavior, they might stop it, which would help to put a stop to the way they’ve “pimped out” the precious Gospel of Jesus.
But then another part of me wonders if they do indeed realize exactly what they’re doing but simply do not care that it’s inappropriate.
I really don’t know.
But for me, talking openly about all these silly, cringe-worthy things has been very helpful as we continue to heal from our experiences at Living Word, where true Christianity got all tangled up with pursuing worldly wealth.
Charismania,
I have posted here in the past when we all were assessing the deceptiveness we saw in the Lakeland Revival.
If you remember, I mentioned that I also went to a church with pastors like the Smiths. In fact, the church was built and paid for by the congregation’s sweat. We were in our 20s just starting families but were under pressure to give building committments and go to work every weekend, to build the buildings, yet they owned the church and we owned nothing.
You said in your post above that your hope is that they will wake up and see the error of their ways and repent. I don’t think it will happen. When people cross the line and become powerful, greedy and rich from the body of Christ, they generally will never admit it or change their lifestyle unless something drastic happens. Think of one person you know who admitted it. I can only think of Jim Bakker, but look what it took to humble him? He served time in prison and lost everything, including his wife. I think a person’s moral character comes into play. If someone has the character to rob the body of Christ for personal gain, treat them like inferiors for power and recognition, then there is is a serious flaw and a heart issue that only God can correct by His mercy. God sees it and lets it go on for a season. He gives people time to repent because he loves them so much. I don’t believe he will let it go on forever, because God is a jealous God and he does not want men to rob His glory from Him. Its idolatry. God cares too much about his people to allow it to continue, and he will rescue them.
At the church where I attended, the congregation finally woke up and questioned the pastors’ lifestyle and motives. Most of the church members left, one by one, but of course, the pastors said they all backslid or were uncommitted, and made the remaining people feel fear about leaving. The pastor’s wife has not spoken to her own sister in years, probably 15 or 20, because her sister and brother-in-law left the church to start their own ministry.
Jan
Hi, Jan. Good to “see” you again!
You said,
I think this is a wise observation.
The other week, we spent some time at a vacation home, where I had the chance to sit and just sort of vegetate quietly. I probably spent a couple of hours reading and meditating on different passages in the Bible, whatever I sensed that God was bringing to mind. One passage I read was in the Gospels, where Jesus tells the parable of the sower and the seed.
As I read that well-known parable – and especially as I got to the place where Jesus actually explains to His disciples the parable’s meaning – it suddenly hit me that in our Charismaniac church, we’d been taught a twisted version of what “sowing seed” meant.
Jesus clearly stated that the “seed” was the WORD. And yet our pastor and so many others who spoke from Living Word’s pulpit over the years had taken that parable and twisted it around so that “seed” was always equated with MONEY. We heard SO MANY times that we “needed to sow our seed in good soil,” a reference to the different types of soil from the parable. Yet “soil” in the parable was the human heart and NOT various “ministries.”
As I sat there at that vacation house and pondered how God’s Word could have gotten all twisted up with money, I was struck by just how outrageous this is…and how angry God must be, that these preachers have so cheapened His Word so that people confuse it with money. God’s Word, the hope of the Gospel of Christ, is so much more valuable than any material thing!
“getting there” -
Because your comment contained a link, it went into the spam queue, which I just happened to check only now. I apologize that it did not get posted sooner. I will go look at your blog.
The “deconstruction” process for me turned out to be longer than I expected. But in some ways, it’s also been easier than I thought. I remember when we first put up this site, I was SO AFRAID that someone would stumble upon the site and the word would get around that we’d spoken out. Fear was what motivated the anonymity initially.
I was so afraid, too, that leaving Living Word would mean that we’d suffer through vague “consequences.” The idea that leaving Living Word would cause people to have all sorts of problems had been drummed into us from the pulpit for such a long time that I’d internalized it and believed it.
But since we’ve been out, things have actually gotten better instead of worse. And I realized a long time ago that Pastor Smith and his family only had power in the little kingdom that they created. Once we left that kingdom, they couldn’t do anything to us.
It’s good to be free. Working through the process of finding freedom takes time, but it’s worth it!
the annointment recipe!!:
a little honey,
Milk,
blessed water
and crushed seeds
Ha! just be glad he didn’t blow his nose on the hanky.
Now that’s an anointing of a whole different kind.
The things you describe in this, and other, posts are tragic, but there is another tragedy that most Christians are unaware of.
“Churches” come in an incredible variety of forms and flavors. At some, you find self-centered, manipulative “Pastors” like your pastor Smith. At others, you may find a better atmosphere for forming relationships; or teaching that is more biblically sound; or stale religion.
The point is this:
“Church” as we all know it and have experienced it, is light-years off the mark of what God really intends, whether it is a “bad” Church or a “good” one. We must wake up to this reality.
Please visit my blog and see whether I’m seeing reality, or am just another “complainer”.
I think you are brave to make a comment about Sarah Palin on endtimespropheticwords blog site. Not only does the blogger blow people off but so do many of the commentors. I appreciate your effort to try to maintain balance.
Hi, “genericjenny,” and thanks for the comment.
The thing is, Miriam over at endtimespropheticwords is someone whom I always respected, prior to her obvious bias against Sarah Palin. I don’t understand what is fueling her desire to speak out against the Republican ticket – which, as we all know here in America, is basically a default endorsement of the Democrats. With Obama’s own quite foggy past and less-than-savory connections, why would a true “prophet of the Lord” spend so much time tearing down Obama’s opponant? Especially since she herself is not even residing in the country where this election is going to take place?
And especially since Sarah Palin is at least a professed believer in Jesus?
I really don’t understand it.
When I read her report of the vision which the Lord supposedly gave her a couple of weeks ago, I was utterly dumbfounded. Given her complete LACK of corresponding “words from the Lord” about Obama, it was OBVIOUS that Miriam’s Palin vision could not be from the Lord. Would the God of the Bible speak out against the perceived “clownishness” of Palin – someone who, sincerely or insincerely, at least professes Him as Lord – and yet remain silent about the candidate (Obama) who until just recently had been a member of a hate-filled, racist church and continues to have close ties to New Age priestess Oprah Winfrey…and who had the gall to defend late-term abortions?
I wrote Miriam a private note telling her how much I’ve respected her work and suggesting that she might want to evaluate the reliability of the “vision” she’d reported. I told her it was my belief that she was hearing the voices of the liberal media coverage – especially in England – and NOT God’s voice.
When I saw that she again posted something negative about Palin today – an article taken from some British newspaper, with no analysis or commentary from Miriam herself – I have to say that I was deeply, deeply troubled. What was the point of putting that piece on her blog? Was Miriam trying to prove that her vision of Palin as a circus ringmaster was somehow true, just because the Republicans bought Palin an expensive wardrobe? What’s so “prophetic” about that? Why does it seem on Miriam’s blog that the “God” speaking to her never has anything to say about Obama?
It’s not that ANY of the candidates is above reproach or correction. That’s not my point. In fact, I believe that American politics is a filthy game with very few (if any) true heroes. In every election, it always feels like a choice between the lesser of two evils.
Miriam is obviously free to speak out all she wants to against any or all of the candidates. I just wish she wouldn’t do the very thing she decries in others – try to pretty it up with a “God told me,” when the Bible gives us no reason to believe that God would have so much negative to say about one candidate and so little negative to say about the other…ESPECIALLY given the other candidates policies and positions.
I guess I’m just doing what Miriam herself has done with so many Christian ministries – I’m holding up her “prophecies” and her “impressions from the Lord” (or whatever she wants to call them) to the light of Scripture and the God Who reveals Himself there.
The fact that she has never admitted that she could possibly – just possibly – be wrong has really turned me off from the whole rest of her “ministry,” or whatever it is that she wants to call it.
Dear Charismania,
I laughed at loud at this post being able to relate to the absurdity of things I have participated in and rationalized in similar type ministries! Thank the Lord Jesus for his patience, mercy and forgiveness!
I too appreciated you courageous post at Miriam’s blog. I too think her visions must be put to the test as all extra biblical revelation must. I am not against dreams, visions or prophecies, I believe they must be proven.
I found Miriam’s blog while searching for truth during the “Lakeland Thing”. I appreciated much of what she posted as it deepened my understanding. However, before forwarding I would have to qualify the post by stating I didn’t agree with everything written or the manner in which it was communicated.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about her postings. I actually spent quite some time yesterday writing a comment to her. I pointed out a few things she claims Sarah Palin states about herself that just are not true. And also I found two articles, one from the BBC that admits it’s liberal bias and one from the AP that states it is within the law and precedent for Governer Palin to take her family with her to events. As for the clothing, they don’t belong to her and will be donated to charity.
I ended up not sending it because I truly believed it would not have mattered and I would hav most likely been attacked as you and others who commented were. Isn’t that sad I was that AFRAID of her?
I’m just venting here. I also thought her responses accusing commenters who brought up Obama as trying to deflect scrutinization of Palin. I think that is censorious and controlling to logical and legitimate comments. Hence, I was truly afraid to voice my comments. I am still being liberated and healed from past controlling influences!
I have truly been praying for her as for the past few weeks I have wondered if she is coming “unhinged” in some degree.
I also wondered if she does not have a “blind spot” as to how hostile her comments come across at times. If anyone tries to address that issue with her she attacks them for presuming to know her motives etc., strange.
I also think there is a lack of distinguishing in importance of issues. Like when Jesus pointed out the Pharisees strained at at gnat but missed the more important matters.
We Christian Americans are in serious circumstances right now. There is much at stake in this election. To me, the issue of abortion and the appointment of furture justices to the Supreme Court pales everything else (except national security). To be debating what Palin wore or how much it cost is trivial.
I also think some might be viewing everything through a “NAR Dominionist” lense. Fearing Palin’s past church associations might somehow in the future, if she becomes President set her up to join with Peter Wagner and start killing believers who don’t go along with their agenda!
I just think the possibility of THAT happening is absurd.
I thinkpossibly this is what Miriam is trying to warn American Christians about. as she states we are blinded and brainwashed by our time spent in churches here and she is outside that and able to be objective.
I don’t think she is as neutral or objective as she thinks she is. I think everyone is influenced by the culture they are living in to some degree as also I think we are not able to get “pure unbiased” news information.
Anyway, thanks for letting me comment. God Bless you!
Hi, “Seeker.” Thanks for your comment.
I, too, found Miriam’s site while looking for info about Lakeland. I really appreciated her stance of holding everything up to the standard of what the Bible would say. Having come out of some of the more ridiculous “Word of Faith” excesses, and having been hurt by them, I felt pretty strongly that what was going on in Lakeland could easily harm others as I had been harmed. I was glad that she put in the hours to keep the world informed of Todd Bentley’s likely “dark side.”
But like you, I also feel uncomfortable sometimes with the agressively harsh tone that occasionally comes through in some of the remarks about Todd and others. Even though it was pretty obvious (to me, at least) that Todd Bentley was something of a charlatan and huckster, the Bible tells us that our actions should be guided by love and gentleness.
I guess I’m displaying my own double-mindedness about “calling out” ministries that are in error. I think it’s an important thing to do, and I believe that Miriam has essentially done good work.
But it seems more than a little odd that she would be so able to tout her own prophecies and yet so unable to dialogue about the possibility that she herself could be mistaken. Why is it OK for Miriam to be so confident that “God told her” this or that – when she has little backing from Scripture – and yet not OK for the many ministries that she decries to do the same?
I left a comment on Miriam’s blog yesterday, which is still apparently parked in moderation. Unless I have a change of heart, I probably won’t comment there again. In case the comment isn’t approved, here it is:
First timer here. Miriams site has been a source of information for me as well but since the Palin remarks I have been drawn away from the site. I don’t know, I personally feel that their voices (those not of the United States) really don’t have or should have much input on politics here. I feel the same way about those who have supported candidiates with donations that come from outside the United States. But then again, if we are headed for some New World order, I suppose the world will gve input!
It seems to me that we keep hearing “words” about Palin from both sides of the “church” and many are the opposite of each other. One “prophecy” says that Palin is Gods choice and others say she is not. Seems like if God is speaking in this matter that there would be a tremendous amount of agreement with those who “prophecy”. Maybe “no one” is really hearing Gods voice in this matter.
I know whom I am voting for and My personal belief is that it comes down to what the candidate believes about the sanctity of life. Neither candidate pleases me but as one said above I will vote for the lesser of two evils. Whom ever is put in office I think it would behove us to remember that God sets up all authorities in governement and He knows what He is doing as He is in control.
Great site here and posts/comments from all.
“I Want” -
Hi, and thanks for your comment.
I’ve been praying for Miriam. But I haven’t been spending much time at her site anymore, even though it used to be one that I checked several times each day. It’s not, as she rather snippily put it, that I’m upset because she’s not saying what I want to hear. Rather, it’s that I sense deeply that something is wrong there.
When Miriam stuck to writing about how these various teachers’ (Todd Bentley, etc.) teachings and behavior stacked up against what the Bible says, she did great work. But even from the beginning, when she’d post her own personal prophecies, I sort of “took it under advisement.” Proclaiming the Word of the Lord in a “prophetic” sense is a fearsome and awesome task, one that should only be undertaken with the utmost humility and fear of God. It seemed odd to me that Miriam could so harshly speak against so many preachers, often to the point where it felt like her words were filled with malice and scorn toward them, while at the same time be used as a prophetic mouthpiece for God Himself.
Using Miriam’s own standards – of holding teachings up against what the Bible tells us – would a true prophet of the Lord sound so positive that so many preachers are beyond hope and redemption? I never doubted that Todd Bentley was engaging in fraudulent behavior. Miriam performed a great service to the Body of Christ by calling him out on it. But there were times when it felt like God Himself would be far more gentle and loving in calling Todd to repentence.
So I always wondered, when Miriam would describe some dream or vision she’d had, or something that God had told her, how we could trust that she was really hearing from God, all the time. At the very least, how could she herself be so sure? With this Sarah Palin thing, if half of her audience (at least half) is saying that they think she “missed it,” wouldn’t the humble, Christlike thing be to just admit that perhaps she’s wrong?
She could gently defend herself by simply saying, “I guess time will tell.” And leave it at that.
The fact that she could not – or WOULD NOT – do that has caused me to think even more strongly that she’s not speaking on behalf of God. What did Jesus Himself say? – “My sheep know my voice”? Miriam simply does not sound like Jesus. If she’s truly speaking on God’s behalf in this Palin thing, she’d exhibit more humility and gentleness with her detractors.
Charismania,
I have personally decided that very thing, “time will tell” with her “words” and “dreams” that she has. I have been a little wary at where she is with this stuff. She has many people who are agreeing with her and some have also had a “dream”, “Vision” and/or “word” and these experiences seem to validate what she herself has had. So, again, “time will tell.”
A little background on me. I am one who was very much involved in the same type of ministry as Marian and others. I came out of a Baptist church, “GOT” the zap and followed headlong into the charismatic/pentecostal church.
More recently I was a member (4Square) of a very “seeker-sensitive” Rick Warren-esse church that had a mixed bag of teachings and beliefs from within. From the Prosperity Teaching to Mike Bickles Harp and Bowl prayer methods, to some “Soaking Prayer” etc., etc., etc.
The Holy Spirit gave me, quite suddenly, a red flag just over two to three years ago about some of these things being taught, and after much research and study, I have to stand up for what I believe is truth of Gods Word and have left this church. I am still waiting to see where the Lord may lead myself and family to.
The problem is that there are very few churches where I live that haven’t succumbed to the PDL or Third Wave or Emergent Church methods (theology).
Anyway, as far as the other site we have been talking about, I leave those words on teh shelf and if they come to pasds then I will have to considere that they were indeed of the Lord and if not then of the flesh. But I am not going to run my life or make my decisions based on them because if I test by what I believe the “prophetic” is suppose to be (encouragement to the body) they don’t pass. But, “time will tell”!
Blessings
Charismania,
Do you have a generic e-mail address you would be willing to send to me to my e-mail address that was required to post?
I have a document that I thought you might be interested in. I will take out all of the names and places to keep it all unidentifiable but it is worth the read.
IWant
Do you also find that you can’t stop repenting for all the foolishenss of the past. I cry tears of shame, disgust and also tears of gratefulness that God did show me. As for your blog being a voice of change.. it is blogs like this that God led me to see the error. I repent constantly… as I remember somethings I did, I find myself in deep remorse.
I had no idea about Todd bently until I found some blogs that exposed his beliefs and that was a huge wake up call for me. When I spoke to the ex pastor and his wife about it, I was considered to be judging the move of God. I left the church and started breaking into tiny pieces finding myself being rebuilt in Christ. So these blogs do bring about change for many, I think.. maybe not the people that teach the stuff but the precious sheep who long to do God’s will, the wool will come off their eyes like it did for me.
“Getting There” -
Yes, I do continue to repent of the foolishness. And definitely, I do continue to feel grateful and amazed that God saw fit to help me see the truth.
When I look back and think of how far I’ve come since we first thought seriously about leaving Living Word, it’s kind of amazing. We decided to leave Living Word Church because we were disgusted by certain decisions Pastor Smith had made that were obviously motivated out of his own self-interest. Most particularly, we were bothered by the blatant nepotism driving the way he positioned his sons in roles for which they were not prepared and were not the best choice for the health of the congregation. We also became disillusioned with some personal prophecies that Pastor Smith had given my husband, prophecies that simply did not come true, not by any stretch of the imagination.
But again and again back in those days, despite our disillusionment with Pastor Smith’s leadership and our questions about the way he used his prophetic abilities, we’d continue to say things like, “Pastor Smith is still a magnificent preacher, when he sticks to the Bible and stays away from self-promotion.” In other words, we did not leave Living Word because we fully comprehended all the error coming from the pulpit. We left even while we were still partly under the hypnotic spell of Pastor Smith’s preaching.
It was only after we left – particularly after they began putting up Pastor Smith’s sermons on iTunes – that the scales dropped away and we fully understood the level of error present in the “Prosperity Gospel,” which provided the basic underpinnings of Living Word’s doctrines.
The fact that God led us out of there is amazing. We did not leave because we were so smart and discerning. We left for human reasons – disillusionment over relatively small things – reasons that some of our Living Word friends told us were petty. I can distinctly remember trying to have a conversation with someone whom I respected, trying to explain to her that we were bothered by the way Pastor Smith put his sons’ interests ahead of what would have been best for the congregation. How could he be a “true prophet” and the “anointed man of God” if he did that kind of stuff and got up behind the pulpit and told the congregation things that were not true? Moreover, how could we trust him again as a “true prophet” if he’d been WRONG in some prophecies?
My friend said something to the effect of, “No church is perfect, and you can’t expect Pastor Smith to never make mistakes as a prophet. And you can’t really blame him for wanting a nice life for his sons. Where else will you go to find good preaching like the way he gives it? There is simply no other church out there that is any better than Living Word!”
The crazy thing at that point was that I essentially found a huge part of myself agreeing with my friend! Aside from a few serious concerns about Pastor Smith’s decisions and some prophecies he’d given, I still believed he was an incredible preacher and that most of what he preached was completely Biblical and true. Oh, we were uncomfortable with the way it seemed like he talked more and more about material things. But it wouldn’t be until much later that we figured out how badly the “Prosperity Gospel” twists the truth.
And it wasn’t until we’d been away from Living Word for awhile that we realized that since Pastor Smith makes himself and his preaching and prophetic abilities the selling points of the church – instead of focusing people’s attention on Jesus Christ alone – there was simply no way we could stay at Living Word if we questioned even one little thing about Pastor Smith’s honesty and integrity. He himself had set things up to where if we did not buy 100% into the notion that he had a direct pipeline to God, and was therefore almost above making any critical mistakes, then we could not trust his weekly preaching, since his preaching was not based so much upon what the Bible said but was instead just a lot of his own analysis of what “God had told him” about a particular verse or Bible story.
For us, leaving Living Word was a catch-22. It almost did not happen, because it was almost impossible to appreciate the gravity of the errors until AFTER we left.
We’re grateful every day that we were led out, even if to our friends there, it seemed like we were led away by “petty” things.
I used to moan about the service being 3 hours long. by one a clock we were still in the church and I would roll my eyes and say to my husband, “let’s just get out of here.” I just heard: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.. I never walked away feeling like I had taken something with me.
So in a sense part of my leaving was also human based but the final decision was when the pastor made a point of going over to lakeland revival to get some annointing.. from South AFrica to America.. travel all that distance. . . I had always intended to leave but my ‘feelings of having to be accountable” kept me there until that moments when the pastor did not apologise for promoting Todd Bently. ONly after I had left, then everything else came to the forefront like you say.. then my eyes started seeing so much more than that. The prosperity gospel, the annointings and generational curses and all that mumbo jumbo was exposed to me and things are still unravelling for me.
It’s good that you got out even if it was for ‘petty’ reasons.. sometimes the petty things are the little cherrie on the top to give us the extra push out of there.
my bad the service would start at 9:30 and we would be out of there after 1pm..
“Getting There” -
Three and a half hours is STILL a long time to sit in church.
Yeah, the overwhelmingly unquestioning support for Todd Bentley from a huge segment of Charismatic Christians still boggles my mind. I can totally understand how that would have helped the light go on for you, if you saw your pastor making such huge efforts to go to the Lakeland meetings.
I watched a lot of the Lakeland services online, and I simply could not understand why people thought Bentley was authentic. He seemed so fake and over-the-top from the get-go.
Funny, I never ever watched the lakeland revival, it was blogs like this that woke me up. Because the pastor was so into him (I did our monthly church magazine) I decided to do some research on the lakeland revival and do an article about it. Then I read about angel emma and gold dust and all the other stuff that was happening. that was a major light bulb moment for me. I have never watched it.. I heard about him kicking an old lady in the face and that does doesn’t sound like the God I follow..
He came back telling everyone that they would be healed etc. I gave him opportunity to apologise but he obviously didn’t.. anyway, this is a whole new walk for me. a scary one but a good one. Thanks for your blog, gonna add you to my blog roll.
Getting There,
I will be praying for you as I have left a church as well, that taught/ allowed both “Prosperity” teachings and Dominionism/Third Wave/Latter Rain/Joel’s Army teachings/Charismatic-mania (Todd Bentley is part of this theology).
Keep your eyes in the word, reading contextually, and keep coming to many of the sites you might run into to ask questions. I received alot of information from sites like this one.
Praise the Lord of Heaven and Earth for it was His good will and pleasure to open your and our eyes to the truth. Discernment through the Holy Spirit is a sign of maturity (Heb 6) and must be practiced.
Blessings to you
Thank you ‘Iwantthetruth’, how long have you been out for? Thank you for your encouragement in this and Praise God for His guidance in this for us. I will keep you in my prayers also. Goodness knows we all need dicernment and more truth revealed.
Getting There,
I have been out for about 4 years now. I actually left because of another issue (Harp and Bowl Prayer and the teachings of Mike Bickle and the Bridal Paradigm) because I was very active as a worship leader atthis particular church and was helping in the beginnings of the Intercessory prayer Ministry who wanted to institiute the IHOP Model of prayer in the church.
I wasn’t even looking for problems but one day we decided to go to a seminar put on by IHOP at another town in my state and I started getting (literally) a knot in my stomach the closer we got to going to date of the seminar. I believe to this day that the Holy Spirit gave me a “RED FLAG” and I began to do research into the teachings and found out why I was given a “red flag”. The more I did research the more I saw other links to the teachings that were going on in other ministries, the more I realized I was being forwarned by the Lord.
My heart was no longer for this fellowship (mind you I had been there for 10+ years, on the board, and was a paid part time worship leader for the church) as I discovered the issues with Propsperity Gospel, Thrid Wave, Dominionism, Latter Rain, Post-modern seeker-sensitive theology (very big on the Rick Warren Purpose Driven Model Church and copied many of their methods).
I knew the Lord was moving me out. At this time, we (family) have not found a fellowship to attend, but I know that the Lord will give us direction soon. There are a couple of things in the works that I am waiting for that could lead to a new church.
Be incouraged, you are not alone, there are many out there who have been and are in the same position you are in and God will lead you out and place you where you need to be.
Blessings
Bless you for sharing this with me. I believe that God will lead you. One thing I have come to realise is that I did put way too much focus on churchianity instead of the pure uncomplicated blessing of following Christ. So the pressure of finding a church has eased off for me and the Holy spirit will guide us as He has already in leaving false teaching.
A lot of churches are incorporating these teachings so it is extremely difficult to find one but we are the church so I find comfort in that. Feel welcome to click on my name and come visit my blog for more on my day to day experiences and discoveries. I am so comforted to know that I have brothers and sisters in Christ walking the same or similar path and I am grateful to know that I am not alone!
I prayed for all my fellow bloggers in the same mind and spirit that God will continue to Guide us into His will.
In Christ
Dear Charismania,
I’m glad you posted your comment to ETPW here as it has not come up there. I also read on that thread where BeneD gave you some advice to get a book on twisting scripture. I would seriously take his advice with great hesitation. If you go to his blog and read his thread on Ray Boltz and read his response to people TRYING to reach his conscience from the Scriptures you will see what I mean. It is ironic that he is advising others in regards to truth and the Scriptures!
I’ve learned a great lesson about bloggers since Lakeland, they may see some issues clearly BUT be totally blinded to TRUTH on other issues.
The Lord Jesus and His Scriptures are our only source of truth. No middle man or woman in between. We have been led away from the institutional church for a few years now. I can truthfully say it has been a great decision to follow the Lord Jesus in this respect. He faithfully feeds me through His word and has connected me to others who truly walk with Him in simple devotion.
Hi Charismania,
Hope this isn’t too little, too late.
I love your above comment to EndTimePropheticWords.
My heart was shouting “right on, right on, right on” as I read it. It is worded perfectly as it pretty much has to be when you respond over there. I’ve tried to communicate what follows at her site, but sometimes my comments get through and sometimes they don’t.
At first I thoroughly enjoyed her posts that exposed the antics of Todd and Company and which confirmed subtle notions that had been occurring to me. Then I became distressed at her vitriolic stance towards Sarah Palin. I know that ETPW is not crazy about AoG churches, but what did she expect Sarah to do? Preach forgiveness, repentance, and the rejection of satan from behind the podium at the Vice Presidential debates???
Also her Ring Leader vision sounded much like the beauty pageant footage of young Sarah which at that time had been well-circulated on the internet. But ETPW “said” that she had had this vision much earlier, but was only releasing it now (then). But nothing on Obama as of then yet (however now we have the “Cock Robin” prophesy).
What does the whole Ring Leader Prophesy mean now that McCain lost, anyway?
My feeling is that ETPW has an in-grained sense of European socialism. I don’t think she understands at all, having not been raised in this country (I don’t think), the difference between an American Conservative and a Liberal. To her a “conservative” is someone who thinks women should remain silent in church and also they need to wear hats. Her articles also seem to reveal that she thinks we’re saying “Repulicans, good! Democrats, bad!” She doesn’t get that this is a battle of ideologies and that currently, the way things are in this country, the Republican Party is the best choice for those of us who believe government is the problem, not the solution. And that “charity” through force of law, is NOT CHARITY!
Thank-you Ronald Reagan.
Also ETPW finds the income of certain preachers and teachers (such as Joyce Meyer) to be unsettling. UK/European Socialism once again rearing it’s head. As a Capitalist I believe that any person should be allowed to make as much money as they legally can, including Joyce. What would be so bad about living in a society where silver had no value?
Don’t get me wrong, it’s good to warn the consumer and I’m all for “Buyer Beware!” But the fact that Joyce’s adoring fans continually throw money at her teachings, books, and products is not HER problem. It’s THEIRS!
I should ask ETPW just how much money should an individual on this planet be limited to earning and who determines this? Her? After consulting with God?
I know the American Democratic Party would be happy to make this decision and constantly revise it along the way. Hello Communism.
As I said, sometimes my comments get through over there and sometimes they don’t. I agree with one of the above statements about opining at ETPW…just going back to check for a response can be frightening. Miriam can turn you inside-out.
Hey, Charley -
Nope, it’s never “too little, too late” over here.
I tend to let pretty much anyone have his or her say on this site, except for the true nut jobs.
I’ve actually had to quit reading over at Miriam’s site. I think your analysis of her lack of anything but a European/Socialist perspective is spot-on. She truly does not grasp American politics, which is why she was really treading on thin ice when she published her supposed “prophecies” and “visions.” They obviously COULD NOT be from the Lord because – applying the standards that she herself applied to Todd Bentley – what she was saying simply was not accurate.
It amazes me that someone could become so blinded by her loyalty to a particular idea. I think she is absolutely convinced that the “Apostolic” movement is going to usher in the anti-Christ that anyone with even remote connections to the NAR is automatically “the enemy.” Her Sarah Palin vitriol was a perfect example of that.
Anyway – I feel bad about Miriam, because I do believe that the Lord used her to preach the truth about Todd Bentley. I never was comfortable with her assertions about her own prophetic abilities, and once she proved herself wrong (with the supposed Palin vision) but was unwilling to concede that she may have missed it, I had to acknowledge that even people who at one time have had good things to say can veer off the path of truth and believe their own press.
Sad, but true.
Thanks again for commenting!
Charismania,
I love it when you reply to my messages.
You say you have quit reading Miriam’s site, BUT…
currently there’s an excellent article over there entitled
“Testimony from Someone Involved with Rick Joyner and Morningstar” by Mishel at Deception Bytes. It’s easier than reading the whole story at Deception Bytes because there it is broken over several different dates and postings. Miriam just lets all three parts read through without interjecting any of her comments along the way.
I really think you should check it out. It’s a fascinating, yet harrowing description and very well written. A chilling story, and you can probably relate to it.
HNY! Here’s hoping you get lots of “Replevin” this year.
(that’s a term from my CLB, bandied about this time every year).
Hi,
I’m new to this blog. I actually found the link on Miriam’s blog. Go figure. Her site hasn’t been mediated for several days now. I read through the research of some others that she may be in some legal trouble with a publishing business she owns in the UK. Maybe she’s in court.
deceptionbytes has linked all of her story together now, so is just about as easy to read as on Miriam’s.
I’ve always gone to her site for info on what’s happening out there with weirdness in the church (used to be in it myself–bobby conner’s church years ago and other crazy charismania up until 7 months ago).
I never read hardly any of her prophecies, as I was burned out on hearing “prophecy” even from someone exposing the false stuff. I did read the Palin one and was quite confused by it. Another I read had quite a “run-in” with Miriam over that one too: http://redeemedhippiesplace.wordpress.com/
Thanks for interesting blog. Going to add you to my bookmarks.
[...] clothing were distributed for healing – printed on the hankies. Also, I myself once wrote a post about a funny thing that happened to us during the final prayer line during that “Handkerchief Service.” These things dovetail perfectly [...]
Hi,
I found this link from Miriam’s blog also. Since her site is not being man at this time I started looking for other sites to read from.
My thoughts were since Miriam states she works a full time job, is involved with a church, (don’t know about husband & children) and manages Endtime site she is taking a much needed break.
Just the Endtime site alone with out the church and full time job would be a full time job. Reading & posting every article, reading and posting every comment, and Miriam posts many comments within article, plus she posts many comments in the comment thread section. I wonder how she has time to get Words & visions then seek the Lord, find them in scripture then study and pray. A FULL LOAD INDEED!
So be it a legal issue, or be it that she is taking a much needed break for rest lets all say a pray for her. After all she is our Sister in the Lord. Maybe we don’t agree totally with all she believes. We are all still on this walk stumbling, falling down and skinning our knee’s from time to time. We need each others prayers to help us get-up dry our eyes blow our nose’s wipe the gravel off our knee’s and keep on walking with Jesus.
I know how much time I spend on the Endtime site daily and I don’t work, have no children at home, and I am not involved with a church (just visiting them). I try to read every article, but I only read the comment that grab me as being interesting. (can’t read them all there are too many, plus many say the same thing just in a different way. Also I used to post a good bit.
I came on the site during the Todd Bentley on-going-saga. I had a lot to say since I had been caught-up in this type phoney signs & wonders movement before. I have decided I have posted my last on that topic. (I will from time-to-time post on other issues) but that topic has been beat to death. Those still decieved by that group of people are decieved because they choose to be. They have been plainly shownly with scriptures backing the deception and lies.
I would guess I spend about 3 hours a day on the site reading. Miriam has to spend double that to do all she does. Then we got to sleep, eat, and shower. I can’t see have she does it??????
I read here that many don’t agree with Miriam on some of the issues she posts. That is normal & human. I don’t agree with everything she posts either. I never post my disagreements because it is plain that Miriam is a strong opinated woman, an excellent debater , she has exceptional debating skills and knows scriptures well.
So when I don’t agree with her it is better to pray than to challange her excellent skills. (maybe that is not how God would have us do it? I really haven’t ask HIM, because I know my skills. I am not a good debator, so I don’t go in the ring with her. Plus it takes very good debators to handle the debate rules. Often times the debate turns into a arguement.)
There is really one major thing that bothers me about the site.
When a article is posted about a fallen leader. There is no “PRAYER CALL” Maybe he was a false leader to begin with? All the more reason for “A PRAYER CALL” as I see it. I am not a believer in Calivinist.
I would post this on the site but I am sure to get a pat answer.
It would be, I do always pray. And that may be true. But as a leader/and she is the leader of that site I feel she need to always remind the saint’s to pray for the lost or fallen one, by issuing a Prayer Call!
Blessing,
Sherry Lee
Hi, Sherry Lee -
Thanks for your comment, and welcome to the site.
I quit reading Miriam’s site regularly quite some time ago, after her own false Palin prophecies. I don’t think she’s such an excellent debater – she just doesn’t bother posting or responding to the comments that would truly challenge what she says.
For instance, although I looked from time to time, I never saw her address my own concern that she didn’t take her own advice with her own prophecies but seemed to think that she was always 100% accurate…JUST LIKE the people whom she criticizes.
I’d agree that we need to pray. Not just for Miriam – but for the church universal. We’re living in some bizarre times, where it feels like unbiblical deception lurks under nearly every rock.
Charismania,
Thank-you for the welcome. I feel a warmth, a camaraderie about this site and the posters.
I am tired of sites that everyone who post are “BIG” them and “little” you. Know what I mean…….
If you post a question/problem the answers come back as if everyone thinks this was your first day of salvation. Everyone seems to be jocking for position.
As I read the articles you have written and the posters comments. It was honest feelings people were sharing from their hearts. No one came back firing scriptures “AT” you like bullets. As if these honest feeling would go away if you were obeying scripture. Talking/sharing is part of healing.
As I drive by my old church I see a million + dollar building project going on, yet a single mother that has attended since the church opened can’t get help paying her heating bill. The door are revolving. Every week some of the older ones get tired of the “show” but there are always new ones coming in with that excited wide-eye wonderment look on their faces.
Our Pastor was popular from day one. He was a local guy who went to Miami, Fl. and done good. He became Benny Hinn’s right-hand man for 10 years.
When he came back and built this church our little Southern town was in total Ahhhhh. When you see him and his wife on TBN they make the church sound so good. If I didn’t know what it’s really like I myself would be watching and saying, “If we could just have something like that here!” So already when they arrivied in town they had the celebrity image.
I too have been put down and spoken to rudely on endtime. (By the owner and many posters.) I decided to ignore it because maybe in print it didn’t sound like it was suppose to?
I am guilty of ignoring and not answering questions myself. (The Holy Spirits does speak to me, as He does to every christian) as I read the question ask of me I heard the Holy Spirit say, “what you wrote was plain. They understood.” It is pretended ignorance to draw you into a debate. I ignored the post.
Once again thanks for the welcome. It is nice meeting new friends.
Blessings,
Sherry Lee
Hi,
I never read the Sara Palin, or the cock Robin prophecy til today. And then I must admit it was due to the controversial spoken about them on this site that got me curious. :~)
They did not interest me. God gives us wisdom if we ask. A promise with no strings attached. I can read. In the Old Testement all kinds of trouble came upon the world when a wicked King was put into kingship. I “KNEW” who I must vote for in my heart. I needed no prophet to tell me. What a prophet says makes no difference. I know what God approves of. There is no perfect person, but I voted on how the one running believed. What did the party believe was right and wrong according to God’s standards of right and wrong. That’s it folks! That’s how I voted!
Help us Father, because the wicked one won!
I am very, very leary after the church I got caught-up in for years of prophets. I’m sure there are some real ones out there but what do you say? WILL ALL GOD’S REAL PROPHETS STAND-UP? ALL YOU WANNA-BEE’S SHUT-UP?
Also I will add everytime I read that Miriam’s requirements for herself and other was a 100% right on in their, “Thus Saith The Lord” I had one of those “cringe” moments that you folks posted about eariler. In fact I wrote a privite e-mail to a friend last week stating that I “cringe” everytime I read where she writes that.
I told friend, “She is just setting herself up for God to show her, “Hey lady you ain’t God!” She will have to eat crow someday.
There was even a prophecy in the New Testement about Paul. When Abagus gave Paul the prophecy that he would suffer great trials if he went to the place he was headed Abagus got the name of the people wrong that would persecute Paul.
Are we better than the New Testement Prophets?
I can also relate to those that posted that, “everything that you post must be worded just right or you will get backlash. Been there, done that.
hahaha
All that said, which was probably too much! let’s all pray. Mariam and all of us really need it.
WE are all on the same side trying to get to heaven.
Amen?
Blessing,
Sherry Lee