I haven’t posted anything meaningful in quite awhile, mostly because I tend not to think so much anymore about our time in Charismania. We’ve moved on and are in a good, healthy place.
But every once in awhile, something does trigger a memory, or a flash of insight.
The other night, right as I drifted off to sleep, I had such a moment.
For some reason – I have no idea why – I was remembering all those times at Living Word Church (a pseudonym, as are all other names used in this post) when people would “fall out under the power.”
For those of you unfamiliar with the goings-on at your typical Charismaniac (hyper-Pentecostal/Charismatic/Word of Faith) church, “falling out under the power” was what happened at certain times during a church service, usually when the pastor or guest speaker would pick a person out of the audience (or prayer line) and “lay hands on” him or her.
At our particular church, this practice was frequently accompanied by the pastor’s declaring a “prophetic word” to the recipient as well, prior to the “laying on of hands.” Typically, in what had initially seemed very spontaneous but in retrospect was probably far more orchestrated and deliberate than we’d ever imagined, Pastor Smith would, either during points in the praise-and-worship time or after his sermon, suddenly pick someone out in the crowd and stride down from the stage purposefully toward that person. If the person were a member, someone whom Pastor Smith knew personally, he’d usually call them out by name. If the person were a visitor, he’d point to them and say something like, “Sir? Yes, you – you in the brown shirt. May I pray for you?”
In our years at Living Word Church, we never saw anyone turn Pastor Smith down when he asked that question. In fact, most people were very eager to be picked out of the crowd like that. If you went to Living Word for any length of time, you easily picked up on the fact that those “prophetic times” - the times when Pastor Smith “ministered prophetically” to people – were the highest point of the service, the greatest thing that could ever happen to someone. People could even get petty or jealous about the amount of times that someone “got called out.” After all, there were folks who’d attended Living Word for years – even some people who were longtime members – who had yet to receive a “word.” It could start to seem unfair when certain new people would get called out two or three times in one month.
Getting called out for a “word” followed something of a formula. When we were new to Living Word, I generally believed in the authenticity of Pastor Smith’s “prophetic gifting,” and especially at the beginning, I was enthralled by the sorts of things he’d say to people when he was in his “prophetic” mode. It wasn’t exactly what I’d have thought of as “prophecy,” in that it wasn’t particularly specific or even very predictive. It also wasn’t much like the prophecies of the Bible, either, in that it was ALWAYS very positive. There were never any warnings about repenting – turning away from sin – for instance, which is a typical theme of Biblical prophecy.
Pastor Smith’s prophecies were instead quite frequently about the “great blessing” the person was about to begin walking in, which at Living Word generally was understood to mean FINANCIAL blessing. It was common for the recipient to react as though he’d just found out he’d won the lottery – there’d be lots of excited jumping around and/or praising Jesus as Pastor Smith would wrap up the prophecy, which would typically end with, “Somebody give Him a praise!”
At this point, the recipient would be caught and lowered gently to the ground by one of Pastor Smith’s “catchers,” the big, burly men who served in that highly coveted capacity and who would have unobtrusively sidled up behind the recipient while Pastor Smith was prophesying to him.
When the recipient would fall to the floor, it was understood that something supernatural and mysterious was happening to him. Pastor Smith frequently referred to himself as a “conduit” of the “anointing,” which (I guess) was the same thing as the “manifest presence of God,” or the Holy Spirit. We never did receive clear, coherent teachings on what, precisely, happened during these ministry times, but if you hung around Living Word long enough, you picked up on the lingo and sort of figured out what was supposed to be going on.
As Pastor Smith would shout, “Somebody give Him a praise,” the crowd would oblige enthusiastically, clapping and hooting. Interestingly, the applause would always be louder if the person seemed to “fall out” in a particularly forceful or dramatic fashion.
“Falling out under the power” could happen in another context, too, which was the prayer line. This didn’t occur terribly often, but maybe once a month on a Sunday night, Pastor Smith would decide to “pray for people.” Like a well-oiled machine, the ushers and catchers would direct us to file out of our pews and snake around into a line that led up to the front. Then they’d place us into position, lined up across the front of the sanctuary. Pastor Smith would pass back and forth in front of the line, praying in tongues loudly and moving from one person to the next, momentarily placing his hands on the person’s forehead. “Falling out under the power” was not such a practically guaranteed outcome in this setting, like it was when an individual was “pulled out” and received a personal word. But it probably did happen to at least 50% of the people whom Pastor Smith prayed for in these prayer lines.
Sometimes a third variation would occur, when Pastor Smith would pause, motion for the music to get quieter, and then would begin to prophesy personally to an individual in the prayer line. When Smith would go to “lay hands on” the person after delivering the “word,” that person typically WOULD “fall out.”
Because of the need for expediency – after all, even the thinned-out Sunday night crowds were still fairly large, with sometimes as many as 500 people – those who did “fall out” in the prayer line were not permitted to lie on the floor for very long before being helped to their feet by one of the catchers.
But it was still understood that we were RECEIVING something from Pastor Smith during those times…
Again, we weren’t taught clearly and specifically WHAT we were receiving, but we easily absorbed the notion that God did something to us through Pastor Smith, and that it happened while we were lying down on the floor, after Pastor Smith had touched us. This practice was one of the things that set our church apart from the inferior “dead” churches out there. It was one of the main ways that we were “ministered to.”
Of all the things that have puzzled me as I look back on my experiences in Charismania, I have to say that “falling out under the power” is still the one that remains the most mysterious.
The other night, as I was drifting off to sleep, I was once again puzzling over what the whole thing meant. In the way that one’s thoughts go as one is in that twilight zone between waking and sleeping, here were the random observations that floated in and out of my brain…
We see no instances of “falling out” happening in the Bible, at least nothing remotely resembling the way that it was done at Living Word Church. Yes, there are places in the Bible where we can read about people trembling in fear at the manifest presence of God and falling on their faces before Him, even (apparently) seeming to temporarily lose consciousness. But I’ve never been able to find a single instance in Scripture where a man of God (like the Apostle Paul, or Timothy, or one of the disciples) behaved like a physical “conduit” of God’s power, where he would touch a recipient and the recipient would fall backward.
We certainly can find no instructions to the church about doing these ministry times. I mean, you’d think that if “falling out under the power” were such a crucial way to nourish and serve God’s people, it would have received at least a few verses of teaching somewhere in the New Testament. But there’s nothing. Even the verses that do mention the “laying on of hands” say NOTHING about “falling out under the power” and lying on the floor afterward. There’s NOTHING about receiving something specific or particular from the Holy Spirit during these times on the floor.
But the biggest thing that struck me the other night, as I thought about all this once again, was this: the applause.
The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit’s main role is to direct people’s attention to Jesus. Therefore, it would logically follow that if this whole “falling out under the power” thing actually IS the Holy Spirit in action, it would serve to glorify Jesus and make people focus on Him.
But in all honesty, I have to say that that did NOT seem to be the outcome of this practice, at least not at Living Word Church.
At Living Word, when someone “fell out under the power,” I don’t really think that Jesus was thought about all that much.
Instead, the recipient of MOST of the attention seemed to be whichever person had performed the “laying on of hands.” Even though Pastor Smith was very diligent about telling his audience to give God praise, I never felt like the applause that would follow these times of ministry was actually about God. It always felt like it was much more a way for the audience to express their awe at how the ministering pastor had just done something to the recipient of the “word.”
The natural reaction of the people seemed like it was to be impressed with the pastor’s (or visiting minister’s) amount of “anointing,” which was assessed by how forcefully the recipient of the “laying on of hands” had “fallen out,” and how long that person had remained unconscious on the floor. By default, our attention was not so much on God Himself (Jesus). Our attention was on the dramatic act of the person’s falling down on the ground, and on the pastor who had touched the person and therefore had caused this dramatic thing to happen. Looking back, I can even remember how certain visiting ministers were particularly revered for the number of people they “pulled out,” and for how powerful these people’s time on the floor had been to them.
And the recipient – the person who “fell out” – basically received whatever attention the audience had left to give, after they’d applauded at the pastor’s behest. It was not uncommon for the recipient to be congratulated after the service. Sometimes, people would even seem to be a bit in awe of the recipient, almost as though they were hoping that some of the “anointing” that the recipient had received would rub off on them.
I have to say that whatever “falling out under the power” actually WAS, it did feel really good. I was never the recipient of a “personal word” from Pastor Smith, but I “fell out” more than a few times in the prayer line. Sometimes it was quite powerful, like a jolt of electricity had hit me and my knees buckled. I’d fall to the floor and be in a sort of zoned-out frame of mind, although I certainly remained fully conscious. I can remember plenty of times where my mind would be pleasurably blank as I fell, and yet I’d still be aware enough of myself that I’d tug on my blouse to make sure that my stomach hadn’t gotten exposed as I’d fallen.
Also, I can’t really say that anything changed in me during those times that I “fell out.” If I’m going to be brutally honest, I’d have to say that I always felt just a teensy bit disappointed after each of these experiences.
I’d return to my seat, sometimes feeling quite befuddled and almost dazed, pretty convinced that whatever had knocked me to the floor had been something from God…
BUT…
Something deep down inside of me sort of knew that if it HAD been God who’d knocked me to the ground, I was still the one at least somewhat in charge of my faculties. After all, I’d have the presence of mind to adjust my clothing. (And I wasn’t the only one – I often noticed other ladies doing that very same thing!) And ultimately, I was ALWAYS able to get up off the ground when I wanted to or was told to by the ushers.
If what had knocked me to the ground was God Himself, it had to be a very watered-down version of God, because my own human will was able to overcome the effects of the “knocking-down” power.
Which brings up another interesting thought: after being at Living Word for awhile, I had to admit that whatever it was that happened to people while they lay on the floor, it didn’t seem to have very lasting effects in their lives.
Among the regulars who “fell out,” we all seemed to pretty much remain as we had always been. I don’t know that any of us went forth and lived holier lives, or more actively loved others, or exhibited more patience, or more faith, or did any of the dramatic things that Pastor Smith frequently declared would happen (such as seeing people we touched be instantly healed, or walking into a room and having so much anointing on us that people would burst into tears at our mere presence and demand to pray to accept Christ, without our ever having to utter a word).
And sadly, among the visitors, or more “transient” folks who were prayed for and “fell out,” I think we saw even fewer lasting results. I can only speak of the folks whom I personally knew, of course, but off the top of my head I can remember several people who attended Living Word for a month or two, people who had major issue with stuff like drug use. I can picture one gal in particular who got prayed for and “fell out” dramatically. She disappeared from Living Word about a month after that dramatic moment, only to return maybe a year later, still entrapped in all the same problems she’d always had.
So…
While the practice of “falling out under the power” was something that felt good, and while I still have no real explanation for the jolt of electricity that I myself experienced from time to time, a jolt so powerful that it knocked me backward and made me fall to the ground, I have to say that I’ve come to the following conclusions.
- I don’t think the practice can be clearly or directly supported by anything in the Bible.
- I don’t think the jolt of power is God Himself, or else we humans wouldn’t be so easily able to overcome its effects.
- Moreover, if the jolt IS from God, then that would mean that God is putting Himself at the mercy of fallible guys like Pastor Smith, who then control when and where and how they dispense God to their people. Ultimately, that would make Pastor Smith and his visiting ministers in charge of God, rather than the other way around.
- I never saw any lasting positive effects of the practice. If anything, it seemed to create a cycle in people of just hungering for more of the same. Sometimes I got the distinct impression that Pastor Smith was fully aware of this, because he seemed to dole out those prayer times judiciously, doing it just enough to maintain attendance. After all, he could always ensure a much larger Sunday night crowd if he announced in advance that he’d be “praying for people” (which almost always meant that there’d be an opportunity to “fall out”).
- The practice seems to take attention AWAY from Jesus and what He accomplished for us through His death and resurrection. Instead, “falling out under the power” directs people’s attention to the person performing the “laying on of hands,” as well as to the recipient of said hands.
I can’t say that I’ve yet reached a definite conclusion about what that whole experience actually was. It’s possible – faintly possible – that when I arrive in heaven someday and get to ask Jesus about this, Jesus will tell me that yes, this whole thing was something He wanted for His church, and that yes, He actually DID “minister” to people through it.
But I have to say that this would surprise me.
Hi,
You know there are two Scriptue verses that seem to speak to this situation and other similar ones. They helped me to sort through the “falling out”, slain in the spirit phenomena as well as other things when I was coming out of a similar type church.
I’ll quote them here and you can see if you think they speak to the situation. It would help to go and read the context they are spoken in too.
The first is from the Old Testament: Isaiah 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.”
The second is from the New Testament: Jude 1:3 “Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.” (Some translations say “once” instead of “once for all”).
It seems to me that both of these verses make a very strong case that if something isn’t in the Word as part of the faith that was given to us, it isn’t something from the Lord.
What do you think?
Hi, Cheryl…
That’s pretty much where we’re coming from now. I’m leaning toward believing that “falling out under the power” is NOT the thing that Pastor Smith and other Charismaniac ministers would portray it to be. I have a difficult time seeing it as the “manifest presence of God,” or the Holy Spirit, or whatever else they want to say that it is.
After all, the Bible is fairly clear that if it is the Holy Spirit, it will only point to Jesus. Yet mostly, this activity (“falling out”) draws attention to the MINISTER doing the laying on of hands.
Also, this practice is neither described nor advocated/commanded anywhere in Scripture.
And if you examine its fruits, you don’t see a whole lot that is lasting or positive or reflects what the Bible tells us we ought to be becoming.
So I tend to agree with you.
But if we say that this practice is NOT from God and is NOT the Holy Spirit at work, then the huge question remains of what, precisely, IS going on when people “fall out under the power”?
I know that others have likened it to some sort of group hypnosis, or Kundalini…or some sort of psychological phenomenom. Is it possible for sweet, well-meaning Christians to end up engaging in pagan practices when all the while they’re THINKING that they are getting closer to God?
That’s what I have such a difficult time with.
Most of my experience indicates that “falling out” is a farce. As such, when I was attended a charismatic church for six years, I made a point not to “fall out” unless I was physically unable to stand (i.e. that God was involved). I can only remember one occasion where I was prayed for in one of those lines and actually felt something fall on me strongly enough to force me to the ground. Even then, I didn’t fall backwards, flailing wildly as many are prone to do. I just fell to my knees and stayed there for about 20 minutes. When I got up I was in a daze for at least a half an hour. I can’t remember what specific issue I went up to the front to have addressed in prayer, so clearly whatever effects I saw from it were not significant enough to have had a long-term impact on my life.
I’m not qualified to say what is God and what isn’t, but I too have no knowledge of any scriptures which address this behavior specifically. I’m reasonably convinced that it’s a modern invention.
As far as the actual experience is concerned, a lot of it is probably a physiological/psychological response to the environment and the laying on of hands. I wouldn’t go so far as to make a direct comparison with Kundalini, but some of the same physical phenomena seem to take place. Those physical phenomena are typically generated in response to an ecstatic environment, so it is possible that some of the behavior we see in rambunctious charismatic services (e.g. “falling out”) is simply a product of the environment.
I think these “falling out” experiences are occasionally legitimate moves of God upon a person, but that real cases of this are far more rare than charismatics would care to admit. Either way, they shouldn’t be widely promoted if they’re not mentioned in the Bible.
very good post. I too was always troubled by this practice and always doubted it.
Great post; you’ve illustrated very well how orchestrated and put on spiritual experiences can be.
A few in my church seem to be more subject to the phenomenon of “falling out” than others, but I don’t feel it’s encouraged or even expected by the leadership, and I do feel that God will lovingly correct those that need to be corrected.
I myself can only recall one time that I was so overwhelmed by the Spirit of God that I just couldn’t stand up anymore (I don’t even like to call it “falling out”), and the effects have been long lasting; namely, a reverence and love for the Word of God, and an increased desire to give my life to see that Word, every dot and tittle of it, given to the nearly two billion people who don’t have the entire Bible in their mother tongue.
Scripturally, when Daniel had the vision of the man on the bank of the Tigris (Daniel 10), it says all his strength left him, and that he fell into a deep sleep with his face to the ground. When Saul encountered the Lord on the road to Damascus (Acts 9), he fell to the ground as well.
But, of course, these were not ministered by “conduits”; they were brought on by direct encounters with God.
Hi, AJS, AH, and John Edwards…
Thanks for your comments.
AH, something that I think is interesting is that just about every account in Scripture of someone falling down in the presence of God involves them falling face forward. Not backward.
Maybe that’s just nit-picky of me.
But – like I said – if this whole “falling out” thing is such a vital part of Christianity, as we were taught at Living Word Church, then it seems like the practice should have at least received some sort of direct mention in the Bible. Or that the examples from Scripture that ARE used to support it would be more like what actually happens in one of these church services.
It’s all just very puzzling.
: ) You’re right. And I should have mentioned, I suppose, that I didn’t fall backward, either.
I don’t think it’s nit-picky at all…if something’s extra-biblical, we have to call it what it is. Maybe that’s what I should start doing. I have to admit, I’d probably be really uncomfortable if it were a more widespread thing in my church.
Hi All
Just one of many encounters ..
Perhaps someone can explain what happened to me over 10 years ago when during an early morning prayer meeting the power of the holy spirit began to fill my body with a love, fire and power that was so intense it nailed me to the floor (on that occassion I feel backwards) whilst I heard the voice of God speak with me .. (“my sheep hear my voice..”). I got up to me feet and it felt very much like I was drunk in the spirit (Acts 2 comes to mind). It was joy unspeakable, filled with glory and it felt great!
Nobody was praying with me, nobody was laying on hands, and I had never seen this manifestation because i’d not been saved that long? I wasnt working myself up or responding to audible stimulation LOL.
We are so worried about being deceived by extra-biblical stuff (like God cant protect HIS own word) that we limit the holy spirit .. the holy spirit IS GOD .. so it stands to reason (no pun intended) that one may not be able to stand in the presence of Almighty God? Does it not? Where does he live today since the blood of Jesus was shed .. thats right inside the believer. As we surrender our will to God it stands to reason our sensitivity to the presence of God will increase.
In the end our focus is not on the “manifestations of the spirit” who is the “manifesting God” rather leading people to Jesus. Its the word of God that causes the manifestation in the first place!
Blessings to you all
Antony,
Thanks for your comment, and welcome to the site.
I’m not going to argue with you about your personal experiences.
However, I’d disagree with the reasoning behind the apologetics you use for explaining your personal experiences.
First of all, I see these understandable but ultimately incorrect assumptions…assumptions that cannot be backed with Scripture:
1) That because your experience took place within the context of a Christian pursuit (prayer meeting), it had to be from God;
2) That because it felt good and positive, it had to be from God;
3) That if our intentions are good – if we are “pursuing God” – then we shouldn’t question what we experience, since God is somehow obligated to look out for us.
I don’t have time to lay it out verse by verse right now, but I do not believe that the Bible supports any of those assumptions. I believe that there’s a good reason why Jesus saw fit to warn His disciples – men who had even seen and touched him and really ought to have been beyond the ability to be deceived – about watching out for “false Christs.” If even Jesus’ very own DISCIPLES could be in danger of being deceived, then why do we think we are above such? Why would we think that we can easily recognize when good feelings – even if they are what we think is LOVE – are from God?
And why do good feelings automatically verify that something is from the God of the Bible? Lots of false religions can produce similar good feelings.
I have never yet seen long-term fruit of such a “pasted to the floor” experience (like the one you describe) leading more people to a saving knowledge of the Gospel. I have, on the other hand, seen instances, time after time, of people who become so enamored of their “carpet time” that they hold those experiences in high regard and seek them to the exclusion of other good works.
I’m a bit late to this thread but I find it interesting, as I was thinking about this very thing a few weeks ago. I was watching a program on the Discovery Channel called Time Warp. It uses high speed photography, then replays the film slowly, frame by frame. It’s really quite fascinating to watch.
The episode I was watching involved martial arts. There was a segment where a man put his hand on another man’s forehead and gave a slight push. The second man’s neck and spine buckled somewhat, plopping him right down in a chair. His balance had been affected by that precise little push on the forehead.
It was so startling to me, because the movement of the first man’s hand and the loss of balance of the second man reminded me so much of the “falling out” movements I had observed so many years ago.
Hey, Vic -
Thanks for your comment, and welcome to the site.
What you’ve shared is very interesting. I wonder if you could find a link on youtube of the show you describe? (I may go hunting for it myself, when I have a moment.)
I did notice that “Pastor Smith” was often quite forceful when “laying hands on” people. I wonder how much of this phenomenon could be the result of what people are expecting to happen to them, along with the simple physical force at work during the “laying on of hands.”
Interesting.
There was one “falling out” minister I held great respect for because he only lightly touched people’s foreheads, and if the person did not fall out he didn’t make an issue of it; he would just continue praying or what have you and move on to the next person. Many fell out, some didn’t. He didn’t make a big deal of it. (The congregants, however…that’s a different story)
I will never forget, though, how VIOLATED I felt after an encounter with someone else – Creepy Visiting Preacher Guy.
First of all, some background: I was a child/teenager and had been instructed by an older-wiser person I greatly love and respect, to “get in the prayer line” every chance I got. So, for years, even though I rarely wanted to, I obediently went to the altar every time somebody was praying and laying hands. I had already begun questioning many goings on in the church, but I was too afraid to blatantly disobey.
So, anyway, Creepy Visiting Preacher Guy – he was very much into making people fall out. He smacked his hand onto my head, and I didn’t fall out. So he wrapped his other arm around me (for leverage? to try to physically pick me up? for cheap thrills?) and pushed on my forehead, so I willfully buckled down to the floor just so he would take his creepy hands off me.
I told someone. She said something about different people expressing the “fire shut up in the bones” phenomenon differently.
Grr.
Hey, Chestna -
Thanks for your comment, and welcome to the site.
Wow, I can really identify with your story about Creepy Visiting Preacher Guy. Heh. I can remember having similar feelings about various guest ministers.
If I may ask – and if you check back in with us again – I’d love it if you’d share a bit of the story behind how you began questioning some of the goings-on in your church.
This is my first visit to your blog, and I really enjoyed it. I appreciate your honest and detailed account of your time at the Charismatic church.
First, I should say that I came to Christ at a great Charismatic church where I spent a summer back in the eighties. It was like a first century church, where people took prayer very seriously and lives were dramatically changed. The church was in Florida, and I lived in Minnesota, so I never settled into a Charismatic church (because I couldn’t find one I liked). But the experience shaped me, and I still very much believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.
However, several years ago when my daughter was having major health problems that were not medically treatable, we were encouraged to visit a healing conference at a Charismatic church. Let’s just say that it felt like a Pagan festival, with the “healer” (who has supposedly raised many people from the dead) cackling out loud while preaching (“laughing in the spirit”), people writhing on the floor, and a strange, almost intoxicating spiritual ambiance filling the room. As far as I could tell, nobody was healed.
I struggled with this experience for a couple of years, because I didn’t want to judge. Then I discovered Andrew Strom’s book True and False Revival. He used to belong to the prophetic movement, and now firmly believes that many of these practices are occult. That made SO much sense to me, because I knew in my heart that what I saw wasn’t fake. It was spiritual in nature, but no way was it from the Holy Spirit. It is spiritual openness without discernment or theological accuracy.
I’m so glad to hear that you are no longer involved with Living Word Church. Thank you again for sharing your experiences with others.
Hi, Anette -
Thanks for sharing a bit of your own story. I’m with you, in that my own earlier positive experiences with Charismatic churches also shaped my views. Matter of fact, I still don’t know for certain what I believe about the more dramatic of the “gifts.” I’d like to think that there are churches out there that do experience the genuine “tangible presence of God,” that do have dramatic healings taking place, that do manifest the true, accurate, and testable prophetic. I’d like to think that these things can and do exist, without these churches’ pastors getting hung up on money and becoming dazzled by celebrity and having an over-inflated idea of their own importance.
I’d like to believe in these things because I can recall some very positive experiences I associate with the whole Charismatic approach to the Christian life.
But I do believe that not everything done under the label of “Christian” is necessarily of the Holy Spirit. You’re so right – something can be spiritual without being from the Lord Jesus.
I’ve never seen dramatic spiritual manifestations, and I have to admit that I’m often skeptical when I hear about them. Not because I don’t think they can happen, but because some people make them seem so easy. As anyone who has prayed fervently for healing can attest to, it is anything but. And if someone doesn’t acknowledge the struggle, to me that’s a tip-off that it’s fake. Sure, it’s possible that someone might have a special gift, but a gift like that, if it’s from God, would have to be painstakingly nurtured. God develops us like a gardener nurtures a plant–he doesn’t just swing his wand like a magician.
In my own experience (and admittedly that doesn’t count for much) the Holy Spirit moves in subtle ways, by leading me to pray for someone or witness or give encouragement at what turns out to be the exact right time. I’ve seen the power of prayer to improve a condition, but never fully heal.
Still, I believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and what he did in the Gospel accounts, he can and will do through us today. He said as much, so who am I to question it? (John 14:12) But Jesus spent forty days fasting before his ministry, and then kept in close contact with the Father throughout his ministry. Also, he was sinless. If you compare the Holy Spirit to sap flowing through a vine to the branches, as illustrated in John 15, it makes sense that Jesus had the power to heal with a word or a touch. It also makes sense that I (a distractible Christian who often forgets to pray) do not.
But I’ve found that God appreciates our efforts to walk with him in faith even when that faith is small. Too many people feel guilty when they pray for a healing that doesn’t come. Yes, faith is an issue (according to the Bible), but it’s really hard for an individual to stand alone in praying for divine healing. Not impossible, just difficult. But if a church really took prayer seriously, I believe that healings would take place. Martin Luther said, “Prayer is the mightiest of all weapons that created natures can wield.”
Richard Foster talks about divine healing in Celebration of Discipline, and he is not Charismatic. Same thing with Andrew Murray. In my opinion, the Charismatic church is often out of control with spiritual experiences not grounded in truth, but Evangelical churches often hold “to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power.” (2 Tim. 3:5) I’m overgeneralizing, of course; there are faithful believers in every congregation.
[...] I get in the prayer line and fall out, the pastor/bishop/apostle/prophet/shepherd of the house/angel of the house never says anything [...]
Hello.
I too am curious as to this being slain in the Spirit or
falling out when the Spirit comes. I refer to the scriptures as the ultimate truth:
The first time the Spirit came in Acts chapter two there is a very descriptive passage as to how it happened and what the believers experienced. This falling down was not in the scriptures there.
In Cornelius’ house when Peter spoke of Salvation they all received the Spirit it says as the apostles did at first. No slaying here either is mentioned.
In other instances where the believers were filled or baptzised for the first time which is a very strong experience indeed, none of them fell back.
The only New Testament inference where people fell down
was in Gethsemane when Jesus was about to be take prisoner. Who fell down? Did the disciples fall down?
Did Jesus fall down? No and no. Those who came to
take Jesus into custody, the evil doers, fell back at Jesus
voice.
Is there any scriptural fact to back up this very widely practiced thing among the believers today?
I have felt power from the HOly Spirit that has caused me to bend my knees before God’s awesome Power and Majesty but I have never been thrown down by the Lord.
God bless.
I’ve never attended such Church myself, but my sister’s friends do attend, and one evening while my sister was helping their Church decorate. My sister felt oddly uncomfortable because everybody their was VERY loving, plus her friends mother who attends this Charismatic Church is a bitter old lady, but in Church she is loving and warm, and that makes us wonder what the other people are like.
Anyway, she was helping with the fall decorations (this Church had a woman pastor and mostly women who managed the Church–read 1 Timothy about this, it’s most humbling for us women), these women were speaking about having hands laid upon them and their experiences in “falling out”. They would get knocked down forcefully with a jolt of electricity and they would lay on the floor for minutes to hours WITHOUT being able to move and they were fully aware of their surroundings, but couldn’t move. My sister said, it seemed as though they had to agree, in order for them to be able to get up. That’s why it would take minutes to hours, they would hear a voice speaking to them clear as day, and they had to scream out “Yes Lord! Yes Lord!” then they could get up.
My sister’s friend, when she had “fallen out” she had resisted the force and it caused her to stagger, back and forth, she didn’t WANT to fall out. The pastor said to her, “Do not resist, give in!” Give in to what??!! I’ve never read in God’s word, to give in. She “fell out” and later there was a guest speaker, a prophet, and she didn’t like him; nor did she believe anything he was saying, but she heard a voice clear as day tell her to apologize to the man, because of her dislike for him. I’ve read and understood in the word of God, it’s not what goes in your mouth that defiles you, but what comes OUT your mouth that defiles you. So, what evil you feel inside about a person, repent to God, but don’t tell the person; because they do not know what’s in your heart, only God. My sister’s friend told the prophet she was sorry for disliking him and asked for his forgiveness. He said he forgave her, but he announced in front of the Church that someone came up to him and told him they didn’t like him, she was sitting in her seat and was trying to pretend it wasn’t her. Something she could have gave to God, she told the man and the man was hurt.
I’m saying all this because, my sister had an experience and you can believe it or not, God is our witness. One night as my sister slept (we live together), she was falling into a deep sleep and suddenly she felt as though someone or something was sitting on her chest, and she couldn’t move or speak. She was screaming for me in her head for close to an hour, but she couldn’t speak. Finally, after her fear subsided, she could think clearly and she screamed out for Jesus to help her and soon as she yelled out for God, the force was yanked off, like it was shot with a shot gun and she could move and speak again. Then she looked over at her radio and she seen a demon face, it looked like it was melting, like melting wax dripping down a candle. This is true, there is spiritual principalities all around, Satan is a trickster and a deceiver. I’ve seen many demons and a few angels, there is an invisible world out there.
You say you don’t understand or you don’t know what the Church was all about. God took you from there for a reason, that place was full of demons, God was not there. God says, do not glory (take great pleasure) in people, or things of this world, but glory in Me. They praised man and not God, I bet they rushed anything about God and got straight to the “good” stuff (praise of people). Read 3 John in the NT, flee from such evil.
God Bless you all, praise and glory to God the Father! AMEN!