You might be a Charismaniac if…
- You think it’s normal that your pastor owns the church.
- Most of the sermons you hear are about money – getting more of it.
- Most sermons are based on Old Testament texts, or single verses plucked out of the New Testament, particularly III John 1:2.
- You think it’s normal to give a pastor a standing ovation.
- You think it’s normal for a pastor to take up birthday offerings for himself or his wife.
- You think the “Gospel” is mostly about the good things God will do for you on this earth, right now.
- You keep hearing that there is a huge “end-times” revival right around the corner.
- You’ve been taught that, in conjunction with this “end-times” revival, Christians are going to get richer and richer.
- You believe that the best way to receive a miracle is to “sow a seed,” which means give a large offering you can’t afford.
- You believe certain people – your pastor, and other leaders with large ministries – are specially “anointed” and hear directly from God.
- You don’t bat an eye when you hear your pastor say, “God told me…”
- Your pastor has bodyguards.
- Your pastor drives a car worth more than most people’s houses.
- The only people with any authority on your church’s staff are either the pastor, or someone who shares his last name.
- Your pastor didn’t go to seminary.
- But he calls himself “Doctor.”
- Your pastor’s wife is also a pastor and goes by the title of “First Lady.”
- Anyone related to your pastor is also “anointed.” And this “anointing” is transferrable by marriage, so that your pastor’s kids’ spouses begin sporting the title of “Pastor.”
- There is special reserved seating for people particularly close to the pastor.
- When you see your pastor up close, you get as tongue-tied and as star-struck as if you’d run into your favorite movie star.
- If you found out your pastor and his wife were coming to visit you, you’d immediately feel an urgent need to remodel your house and buy all new furniture.
- But that would be a pipe dream, because your pastor never visits anyone except for a select few who have been with his ministry for years. Or new people who have given huge donations.
- Your pastor calls himself “Apostle.”
- Your pastor calls himself “Prophet.”
- Your pastor preaches that prophecy is for today…but only HE is allowed to prophesy.
- You’ve been going to your church for more than a year, but you still don’t really know anyone there very well.
- You do, however, feel like you know your pastor pretty well.
- There is fierce competition for seats in the first few rows of the auditorium. You get to church a half hour early to secure one of those seats.
- New people are treated with suspicion. “New people” is anyone who has been at your church less time than you have.
- Your church has very few small-group Bible studies or other supplementary classes. Very few people are allowed to teach at your church, except those who either A) have the same last name as your pastor; or B) are really, really bad at teaching. If someone happens to slip into group “B” but turns out to be good at teaching, he or she will probably never teach again.
- Although you’d never be able to guess from your church’s official statement of faith, the practical reality is that everybody puts more stock in “The Anointing” (particularly as it exists within your pastor) than they do in the message of salvation. Salvation is your ticket to heaven, but “The Anointing” is where all the “good stuff” comes from.
- Your church talks a LOT about physical healing. They even hold “Healing Services” and have healing lines. But nobody ever jumps out of a wheelchair. Rather, a few people get healed from stuff like back pain and migraines.
- Although to hear everyone talk, you’d think that crowds were re-growing amputated limbs and snapping out of Down Syndrome.
- There is a lot more prestige associated with volunteer positions like washing the pastor’s car or opening the door for him than there is with working in the children’s ministry.
- Your pastor talks a lot about how he’s your spiritual father, your covering, and your head.
- You find yourself aspiring to dress and live like the pastor and his family, although you don’t have the money to do so.
- You are encouraged NOT to think. Analytical thought is scorned. “The Anointing” trumps all need for theology, education, or anything else that would involve the logical part of your brain.
- Your pastor’s sermons begin with, “God told me…” and involve your pastor then going on to explain how what God told him is supported by various Bible verses. These verses, in their original context (which is never discussed), have NOTHING to do with what your pastor is saying, but they do contain a key word from the message that “God gave” your pastor.
- Your pastor is in complete control of everything and answers to no one. If there IS an elder or deacon board, the board meets only to fulfill IRS requirements and consists of men hand-picked by the pastor who will agree with whatever the pastor tells them.
- Your pastor dreams of being famous and expends much effort (and cash) to buddy up to already-famous ministries…regardless of whether or not they agree on key doctrines like the trinity.
- Your church’s offering envelopes have a place for giving by credit card. You are also taught that the best way to become financially stable is to “give your way out of debt.”
- You begin to notice that the list of “regular attenders” seems to change all the time. People will attend every service faithfully for months or even years and then suddenly disappear forever. Your pastor spends a lot of time talking about how these folks are in rebellion, and how you will keep yourself from receiving “your blessing” if you listen to them.
- You are taught all the time that you are “blessed,” which generally means that you will live in financial “overflow” and have “favor” over all areas of your life. Sometimes this “favor” seems to mean that you expect people to bend the rules for you…as evidenced by prayer requests like, “Pray for my nephew as he faces drug charges, pray that he will find favor with the judge, and if anyone knows anyone in the D.A.’s office, please call us.”
Obviously, this is not an exhaustive list. We invite you to add yours in comments below.
Charismania 
Your pastor never sits with the congregation during worship time; instead he walks onstage halfway through it and takes his seat on his throne-like chair, much like a rock star does after his opening-act is finished.
Good one, Noella! This was always true of Pastor Smith and Living Word – I wonder if it’s true at other “Charismaniac” churches, besides yours and ours?
All of these sounds like a lady who goes by the name Prophet Joyce Still Manzi in W. Columbia South Carolina her church is “Lion of Judah Worship Center” http://www.joycestill.org. This lady is a piece of work….beware to anyone who attends her meetings. She spends 1 hour taking up an offering for the prophet. Really she is a mass manipulator and any associated with her are also. She even has someone she calls her ‘Armor Bearer’!
We’ve never heard of Prophet Joyce specifically. But we HAVE heard of “armor bearers.” Those are the special people who get the privilege of carrying the preacher’s/prophet’s Bible and notes up to the pulpit.
In fact, you’ve inspired us to add another to our list…
#44. You might be a Charismaniac if the highest volunteer position is being an “Armor Bearer” – the person who gets to carry the pastor’s Bible and sermon notes to the pulpit or podium. This person also might have the high honor of providing the pastor’s “sweat towel” (at Living Word, these were personalized with the pastor’s or the guest speaker’s name on it) and glass of water.
The church is always taking special offerings and emphasizing giving, but they’re almost always short on funds because they feel the need to spend excessive funds to make their church a place of “excellence”.
Asking questions about dubious teaching is tantamount to rebelling against God.
AJS, good ones.
We just thought of another:
#45. You might be a Charismaniac if…the second most popular subject – besides money – is “The Anointing.” This phrase is tossed around in just about every service…as in, “The Anointing removes burdens and destroys yokes.” Or, “Our guest speaker today is an Anointed man of God.” Or, “Wasn’t that an Anointed song we just sang?” The only trouble is, NOBODY ever defines what “The Anointing” is, exactly. There are vague references to kings being anointed in the Old Testament. Sometimes the passage in I John is trotted out (“For you have an anointing…”). But if you quizzed 50 church members, you’d be hard-pressed to get a clear definition. People will talk about a certain sense of God’s presence. Or a certain feeling. Or a certain authority. But nobody knows for sure. Yet according to Charismaniac preachers, “The Anointing” is the sole quality that makes a church acceptable. And the lack thereof is cause to mock a church as dead or dry. “The Anointing” is also the reason Charismaniac preachers “don’t need no education.” (See #15.)
a few more:
1. doesn’t take communion with the congregation because ‘Jesus only took communion with His Disciples’ and the preacher isn’t going to waste his time with you lot!
2. congegation not allowed to talk about Jesus to anyone, their job is just to get people into the church to hear the minister
3. only Bible studies, etc allowed are those organised by the church and run by senior people
4. no accounts. gets in a bad temper if people ask about accounts. Does not share with chuch unless they want money.
5. use of bad language even when preaching. Justifies it.
6. shouts his mouth off at any excuse (OK, we probably all do that!)
7. abusive and foul-mouthed about other preachers (and then shares a platform with them!)
I think that this is a mixture of a charasmatic and plain ordinary abusive church
RE: # 7
Here are a few variations on that theme.
“It’s turnaround time”
“It’s a new season”
“There’s a shift coming”
“God’s about to…”
“God’s getting ready to…”
“God’s positioning you to….”
“The revival is here…”
“There’s a new wind blowing”
“God is doing a new thing”
etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum…ad nauseum
And they’ve all been saying the same things for YEARS!!! Just turn on TBN, you’ll hear it tonight.
Remember when every year had a rhyming prophecy?
1996 The year to get it fixed. (whatever was broken)
1997 God’s year of Heaven (on earth)
1998 “terror from hell’s gate – but not if we pray”
1999 can’t remember…probably something ‘divine’
Nothing rhymed with 2000.
We left in 2001. Wonder if they’re still doing that foolishness?
d –
At our former church, the pastor always received a special “prophetic word” at the end of each year. (Somehow God likes to honor our holidays with special pronouncements?) Smith would announce it either during the New Year’s Eve service, or a week or two before that, as he began to talk up the special New Year’s offering. Pastor Smith’s yearly revelations did not rhyme, but they did provide fodder for reams of sermons. He could preach on one of these themes for weeks and weeks.
Let me see if I can remember any of them…
“The year of overflow”
“It’s arrival time”
“The year of completion”
I thought I could recall more, but oddly, they just don’t come to mind.
The funny thing about these yearly prophecies is how, once we’d been there for a few years, they all began to sound the same. In fact, they all WERE essentially the same, always about the same huge revival that was just about to “bust loose,” the revival that was going to “blow the roof off the place,” the revival that would involve people lined up around the block to get into the fourth service of the day.
And there was always a heavy financial theme running through them, too. Naturally. All the better to go with the special New Year’s offerings.
What I found funny was how, even though it was OBVIOUS after a few years that these words weren’t coming to pass, that did not diminish people’s enthusiasm for them.
In a small way, these yearly prophecies played a part in our leaving. When 2006 rolled around, Pastor Smith confidently announced that it was “Arrival Time.” But at the end of 2006, during the December sermons when Smith began to talk up the New Year’s service (and offering), he began to talk about how 7 (as in 2007) is the perfect number, the number of God, God’s number. 6, on the other hand, is the number of man. 6 is the number of frustration. And 2006 had been a terrible year. 2006 had been the year of man, while 2007 was going to be the year of God, God’s year.
I can remember how ridiculous this seemed to me. Certainly I couldn’t be the only one sitting there who remembered the jubilant prophecy about “arrival time” a scant 12 months earlier. I knew I wasn’t the only one.
Yet there they all were, cheering raucously for Smith’s latest pronouncement, as though it came from God Himself. We left shortly after the New Year.
You know your in a charismatic church if
The congregation believes in supernatural debt cancellation. All your credit cards balances are going to magically disapeer
No one in the congregation should be living a better lifestyle than the pastor
The pastor doesn’t show up to men’s events cause he’d rather spend his time on the golf course.
The senior pastor no longer holds counseling sessions, weddings, nor funerals.
It’s impossible for the ordinary folk to get an appointment with the senior pastor.
There is no money in the budget for Youth and missions but the Sanctuary can be remodeled if a big name celeb preacher comes to town.
The pastor has several business ventures all under the umbrella of the “church” as to not have to file an IRS 990 form.
The Pastor and his family are the only one’s who profit from these business ventures.
Your pastor is on the best seller’s list.
Wow, “Finally Free” —
Those are excellent! 🙂
Oh and I forget the ultimate
Your Pastor and his cronies travel in their private jets while the rest of the team travels commercial coach on their own time and $$$$
I just thought of another few.
Members of the church in financial need are made to feel like dirt and put through the third degree if they have the audacity to ask the church to help them. Then they are sometimes told the church does not have funds for that although the church just bought the pastor a new mercedes/lexus/rolls/or bentley.
Only faithful tithers can see the church books.
Finally Free said “The congregation believes in supernatural debt cancellation. All your credit cards balances are going to magically disapear”
Whoa!!! Were we in the same church?
(no, because ours was little trying to act big and it sounds like yours was BIG)
But really, this one always bothered us. I mean how is that right? To charge up debt and expect God to cancel it through an error? Don’t you still owe that money? Aren’t you still wearing those clothes? The ones you didn’t pay for???
How is that right?
And would we be rejoicing if, at the end of the week, our employer’s computer had an error and they couldn’t find our 40 hours????
“No one in the congregation should be living a better lifestyle than the pastor”
Yeah, here’s the spin. He’s setting the example of how we should be living and because the ‘anointing’ flows down from the head. An Old Testament reference to Aaron’s head/beard/robes which was totally taken out of context because the actual scripture was talking about unity…not anointing, or material wealth.
And seriously???The faithful tithers got to see the books???
NO ONE got to see them at our former church.
d –
This always bothered me greatly, the “supernatural debt cancellation.” And it wasn’t just about money…at our former church, this attitude seemed to apply to all of life.
For instance, when we were still part of the leadership and were on the email distribution list, we’d get emails like the following:
“Please pray for our son. He was arrested with a pound of marijuana in his car. Pray that he will be let off with just a slap on the wrist. And if anybody knows someone in the D.A.’s office, please let us know!”
The idea seemed to be, we can live as irresponsibly as we want to, and since God is our personal sugar daddy, He will step in the moment we ask Him to and fix all our messes.
After my husband read my above comment, he said that these prayer requests were actually more like this:
“Our son was arrested last night after he killed his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend. But we are speaking and declaring supernatural favor over him! We declare that the detectives will not be able to find the weapon. We come against the devil and declare that no witnesses saw the shooting. We are praising God in advance for a not-guilty verdict, or at the very least, a mistrial. And if any of you out there in the congregation are ballistics expert witnesses, please call us. Thanks.”
I wrote a lot of these on my “Buzzwords” post, but I see some new ones, too! I never went to an overly charismatic church, but in the last few years of my attending my old Baptist church some terms began to creep in, like “believe it and receive it”, “name it and claim it”, and “expect a miracle.”
It was when I began playing for a pentecostal gospel artist that I began to see all of this stuff with the “anointing”, the slaying in the spirit, and a WHOLE lot of hypocrisy! This is not to impugn the whole pentecostal movement -they DO have the best musicians!- but it is known that a lot of the “talking about people and smiling in their faces” is commonly done by COGIC folk. And I live in the HOME of the COGIC denomination.
This post is EXCELLENT, though. And funny.
One more thing:
Your pastor might be a charismaniac if, as in your #5 offering, he puts the birthdays of the ENTIRE “first family” in the prospective member’s package (!) as my wife found out when she was looking to join when we first met. I quickly put the kibosh on THAT!
YOU might be a charismaniac if that SAME Word of Faith pastor has his wife, the mother of his 5 kids, committed under the pretense of sending her to a SPA, subsequently leaves her for the church secretary, (no lie), leaves her financially destitute, and you continue to defend and support him, denying accountability and public court records!
maxdaddy,
We’ll have to check out your “buzzwords” post. Haven’t had the chance to read it yet, so if you see duplicates on our post, they’re purely because of how widespread this craziness is.
I agree with you, one aspect of our old church that we really miss is the music. Living Word had (has) some of the finest musicians around. (Unfortunately, they all had to bow and bend to Pastor Smith’s marginally skilled young son in order to participate, but that’s another story for another post!)
Your story about the pastor having his wife committed is beyond bizarre. But even sadder is that it’s NOT hard to believe he still has defenders. Seems to go with being a Charismaniac. Which leads to another:
You might be a Charismaniac if…you defend your pastor no matter what he does, even if it could land him in jail. After all, “Anointing” not only trumps education, it also trumps all other rules for behavior.
Charismania,
The excerpts from letters you received are more troubling than anything I’ve read on this site thusfar. I can’t believe that people who are charged with leading congregations of Christians could have such a profound misunderstanding of the God who they serve. It takes a lot to phase me and I still find those ideas in particular to be absolutely appalling. Thank you for posting those.
AJS (and everybody else) –
Please understand, those were SPOOFS of emails that we’d received, exaggerated for the purpose of illustrating a point. We would NEVER publish the actual confidential communications we received in our time as leaders.
These prayer request emails, while far less outrageous (just to be clear, nobody wrote to say their son killed anyone), DID demonstrate that people at Living Word believed that somehow they would receive “favor” even when they might clearly be in the wrong. We were not exaggerating regarding the request for “anyone who might know someone in the D.A.’s office.” That was almost a direct quote from one of the emails.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
[…] Oct 28th, 2007 by John from Charismania: […]
Thank you for clarifying that.
This is spiteful and absolutely false for most churches of the pentecostal/charismatic movements.
If you don’t truly understand something you shouldn’t make outlandish exaggerations .
Spiteful? No. But perhaps a bit sarcastically humorous – you know, comic relief?
We’d love to believe that this is “absolutely false” for “most” pentecostal/charismatic churches. In fact, that would be wonderful!
But obviously, since you think our list is “absolutely false,” then YOU are making outlandish exaggerations about something that YOU don’t know about. Because, every one of the things on our list was TRUE for our former church.
Again, we wish it weren’t so. We pray that it will change. But sadly, it’s NOT “absolutely false.” Rather, it’s absolutely true. And judging from the comments and emails we’ve received since the posting, there are many other “Charismaniac” churches out there exactly like our old one.
It may be true for the churches that are owned by the pastor himself, but I refuse to believe that it is true about the major pentecostal/charismatic organizations. (ex. Church of God OH/TN, Assembly of God.) Which the church owned by pastors are few by comparison of just looking at the COG AOG collective.
APC –
I wonder if perhaps you’re not misunderstanding our little list here. It’s titled, “You might be a charismaniac if…”
In other words, we’re DEFINING what it means to be “Charismaniac,” NOT what it means to be charismatic or pentecostal. If the churches you’re familiar with don’t have the characteristics on our list, then they’re not “Charismaniac.” And that’s a good thing. We praise God to hear that there are actually churches that still hold to the gifts of the Spirit and have not been overtaken by the faulty theology of the “Prosperity Gospel” and pastor-worship.
I will repeat, though, that from all our emails and comments, “Charismania” is far more pervasive than you might realize. People from all over the country are writing us to tell us they’ve gone through very similar things.
Maybe
And not just the US – I’ll raise my hand and identify Australian churches – some affiliated with AOG – as being more charismaniac than Christ-like…
[…] You might be a charismaniac if… https://charismania.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/you-might-be-a-charismaniac-if/ […]
You might be a charismaniac if people go forward Sunday after Sunday to be prayed for and they crash to the floor under the power. They are then covered with cloths that match the decor
You might be charismaniac if the pastors have ornate crystal glasses for their water and other speakers get styrofoam cups. 🙂
You might be charismaniac if you get a lap cloth with a lace border that matches the decor.
My goodness, Sue…
ALL of those things were true at Living Word!! Well, there weren’t specific lap cloths, but the First Lady did have one of the “drop cloths” available to her (tucked in the drawer of the side table next to her throne), which she used when wearing one of her more risque outfits, like her leather skirt, fishnet stockings, and black knee-high go-go boots.
(This is another subject, sort of, but unfortunately, I’m NOT joking or exaggerating about the First Lady’s wardrobe. Although Mary Smith was in her early 50s, she made tremendous effort – and obviously spent LOTS of money – to look young, stylish, and “hip.” The funny thing is, while we were enthusiastic members at Living Word, I found myself defending her sometimes inappropriately flashy sense of style. I thought it was cool that First Lady Smith dared to push the envelope of what a “minister’s wife” should wear.
But these days, I almost can’t believe she thought it was OK to sport fishnet stockings and a leather skirt…ESPECIALLY because she always sat on stage in a highly visible position.
I’m not exceptionally conservative in what I think about fashion, but considering how lots of women were the victims of her sweeping, highly critical glances when they wore ugly clothing, or if they were overweight, it just seems so funny to me now that she’d dress like that. What was she thinking?)
And the crystal glasses on the stage…that, too, was EXACTLY the same at Living Word! They were nice enough to have enough of these goblets for everybody, guest speakers included, though.
When I worked on the ladies’ event decorating committee, I overheard the “event designer” grumbling about how those goblets were Waterford Crystal, and how they cost $80 apiece. This wouldn’t have been such a big deal, except that they broke a glass at least once a month. The First Lady’s brother was on Living Word’s staff, and he and his wife would often sit on the thrones (there were 4 of these big plush chairs on stage) with the Smiths. The brother would often get very exuberant and “dance in the Spirit” during worship. It was almost funny to watch him whirl around, because inevitably, one of his flailing hands would knock a goblet to the floor, smashing it to pieces.
There was some sort of “ministry” in place to provide these glasses of water, too. My husband had a brief career in the church sound booth, and for whatever reason, the sound booth person also supervised the “water glass filler” ministry. My husband said that during his training, he was told that these “fillers” were very territorial and took their work very seriously. (They also provided large water glasses for the many musicians.)
One of these same “fillers” was always on the ready during the days when First Lady Smith’s brother was on staff…whenever he’d break one of those Waterford goblets, a “filler” would magically appear with a dustpan and whisk broom. The clean-up was almost seamless.
It’s amazing to me, how much thought and energy (and, given the Smiths’ tempers, FEAR) was invested in these utterly silly details. I mean, think about it. $80 for a single glass??? People on a roster who vied for the privilege of FILLING the glasses??? And these same “fillers” being trained to discreetly clean up during the service??? All in the name of “ministry”???
That reminds me of something else, another oddity about Charismania. And that is, WHY DID THE FIRST LADY HAVE TO SIT ON THE STAGE?
From a spiritual standpoint, I never EVER understood this. Her presence up there was nothing but a distraction to the audience. It only served to draw attention to her.
But most importantly, it must have been nerve-wracking for HER. I’m sure she felt incredibly self-conscious up there, even after all those years of ministry. How could she truly worship with any sense of freedom, knowing that everybody saw her every move?
The saddest thing was when the Smith boys got married. Suddenly, after Tommy Smith’s marriage, his wife began sitting up on stage, too. I’d been somewhat acquainted with Tommy Smith’s wife before she’d ever even dated him, and at that point, she came across as an extremely sweet, level-headed girl. She also had impeccable style and a very good sense of what’s appropriate.
But after her marriage to Tommy, I was dismayed by how her style abruptly changed. She was a very beautiful girl, and when she began joining Pastor and First Lady Smith in their grand entrance, mid-worship, she’d be wearing THE most flashy and borderline risque outfits. I remember one Sunday in particular, this poor “Second Lady” swept on stage clad in a bright aqua mini skirt with matching ultra-high-heeled aqua sandals that tied at the ankles with giant aqua bows.
If she were going clubbing with some college girlfriends in Aruba, it would have been an appropriate outfit. She did look absolutely adorable, in a sort of “high class hooker” way. But in her capacity as a supposed “pastor’s wife,” it was a bizarre choice. I wondered how many men, young or old, had difficulty keeping their eyes off of her, keeping their thoughts pure. I also wondered how in the world she’d lost that sense of what’s appropriate. I sat there – again, her presence on the stage was nothing but a distraction – pondering how perhaps First Lady Smith had picked out her outfit and made her wear it, somehow.
At any rate, the ONLY reasons I could ever think of for the Smith ladies’ being up on stage had to do with drawing attention to themselves and asserting their authority over the people. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with worship or church.
You mentioned that the Pastor and his wife would make a grand entrance midway thru worship.
Well that was the same at my church. They would start to shake peoples hands and say hello. We were suppose to be worshipping God….but attention was taken from God to them.
I am so glad that I am no longer a part of Charismania. The church that I now attend examplifies humility among the leadership. They do not bring attention to themselves.
Now, for me to see a leader exalted in any way, sickens me.
I am so thankful to God, that I am free from
all of that.
We’re happy for you, Sue! I’m sure it hasn’t been easy for you, but freedom from Charismania is a good thing.
What I find telling, chrismania, is that a few comments above, you did not refer to the congregation as “congregation,” you referred to it as “audience.” Interesting!
Attempt to bring people to Christ by telling them about all of the great things that Jesus can do for you, instead of bringing them to Christ because of what he has ALREADY done!
I’ve got a couple other good ones for the list:
~You know you’re in a charismatic church when they are having a debt cancellation service and tell everyone to get a gift in their hands as a sign of their faith and say they can use their credit cards to charge the gift!!!!
~You know you’re in a charimatic church when there are more people on the podem (ie ministers, worship team, choir) than there are people in the congregation!!!!
~You know you’re in a charismatic church when the Propeht thinks she is so well-known that she doesn’t want anyone in her congregation to have her address or know where she lives b/c she thinks all will want to constantly be bothering her for prayer and prophetic words and her home is her ‘sanctuary’ to get away from the ministry.
oops…correction
charismatic should really says charismaniac
sorry
Hi, Suzanne –
Good ones. 🙂
This is so funny, but so sad.
You know you are in a charismatic church when you volunteer to help with the “Passion Play” but none of the church staff or members seems to know who anyone in said play is, well except for Jesus and the bad people (Pharisees, Saducees, Judas etc). You mention this and find out you need to keep your smarty pants thoughts to yourself.
You know you are in a charismatic church when the congregation (or audience lol) is chastised repeatedly for “not raising your hands” and being “the land of the dry bones” people or having a spirit of religion because you are too uptight or not spiritual enough to dance around, run, cluck like a chicken etc. Meanwhile it is ok for the anointed, highly favored Pastor’s wife to text message throughout the entire annointed sermon.
You know you are in a charismatic church when instead of Sunday School you have “Fundraisers” for various church building projects. Because really it is “all about souls” (souls have checkbooks and wallets attached) Bible studies are replaced by “Financial peace” and $ making seminars (souls need to be as debt free as possible, so we can transfer that “annointing and cash flow” to plant that seed in your ministry for your blessing.
You will know you are in a charismatic church when Jesus returns because you will all be at some sort of conference.
Mrs. Bucket –
Absolutely hilarious additions to the list! 🙂
You might be a Charismaniac if…
You’re honored and excited when you get asked to be part of the “ministry” that cleans and beautifies the pastor’s wife’s private restroom.
These people are rock stars. I have only ever heard of rock stars having sweat towels. I have heard of modesty cloths. If a young lady is wearing her revealing outfit and decides it’s time to hit the altar, we can cover up her backside or whatever with one of these cloths, but I have never seen them color coordinated though. Wow. I think it’s great that anyone can come in off the street wearing anything if they need Jesus, but this seems so far out to me. Why are these ministers so unable to open doors, put on suit jackets, and do normal everyday things…it must be that they have the annointing. Do they make backstage requests too? Like no brown m&ms. I think the band Van Halen used to do that…..It must take lots of annointing to get to clean the potty of the first lady…she has her own private toilet?
My church has a need to produce ministry t shirts. We have a t-shirt for nearly everything. And we cannot have just normal everyday t-shirts (or smocks??) they must have some newly created logo. Such a huge waste of money and energy to do this. I think I would like to be in the ministry of thinking up this stuff. Now there is a job I would like to have! More fun than thinking up the names for nail polish. It seems these churches spend the majority of their time playing church..like there is so little relevant to do we just take up time with silliness. Like the world is so great and in such wonderful shape, no lost souls, nothing better to do with our time and energy.
Well this was entertaining and sad at the same time…. My husband and I have experienced many of the above, particularly Joyce Still Manzi. She came to our small little home town church, and almost ruined our faith! We “planted those seeds” until we were desolate, ended up losing everything!
We are finally after 2 yrs are starting to live a little above sub-standard.
The very sad truth is that these charismatics will cause many to lose faith and never believe in the REAL Jesus Christ or God, but what they do, they will have to answer to God.
If you have experienced any of this, remember, they are people, they do not represent the TRUE Jesus Christ. Keep the faith, seek the truth and don’t let these people turn you against the saving Grace of Jesus.
Hi, “been there” –
We’ve been out of town for several days and I haven’t had the chance to check this site. Therefore, I didn’t see your comment till now.
I just wanted to say, it’s interesting that you talk about “planting those seeds” until you were desolate. I can identify! And what’s also interesting (to me) is that while we were on vacation, I had a lot of time to sit with my Bible and just think. I really enjoyed meditating on God’s Word. I sensed the Holy Spirit teaching me. One of the passages I read contained the “Parable of the Sower.” As I was reading it, I realized that the “seed” sown was very clearly the Word of God, and NOT money. Jesus specifically says so in His explanation to the disciples, right after He gave this teaching and they didn’t get it.
I’d always known that the “seed” was the Word, and not necessarily money. And yet how many times did we sit through pre-offering pep talks where our pastor would hammer away at how vital it is to “plant your seed into good soil.” He always would talk about how our church (his ministry) was “good soil.” And if a visiting ministry were there and taking up a collection, they’d also talk about how THAT ministry was “good soil.”
Anyway, as I was reading this passage and thinking about it again a few days ago, I sensed the Holy Spirit telling me that it makes God MAD when these “ministers” cheapen His Word by equating it with money.
Now, I make no claim to be anything but a believer in Jesus with His indwelling Holy Spirit for my teacher. I’m not a prophet, I’m not a preacher, I don’t have my “own” ministry. So I don’t feel bold enough to say that “God told me” this.
Yet it is now so clear to me that equating the “seed” in this particular parable with money is simply NOT RIGHT.
Hi Charismania,
No problem. I still don’t have my own internet yet, we are still picking up the pieces…
Thank you for the reply, very nicely said.
to ad to the page of “you might be”
You might be a charismatic if- you go to a church where practically the whole church is speaking in tongues, at once, its total chaos and there is not one interpreter.
You might be a charismatic if- you go to a church where Malachi 3:8 -11 is their favorite verses, it is used almost every Sunday, and your children in the Nursery have it memorized! lol
Its nice to be able to read these comments and laugh now.
What’s that saying, Tragedy given time, equals comedy. Something like that…..
You might be a charismaniac if…….
1. Your pastor speaks in tongues DURING the sermon.
2. You said you didn’t struggle this past week because you tithed on Sunday.
3. Your pastor says the main reason jesus died is to take away poverty.
4. You think the apostle paul had struggles because he wasn’t living in “total victory”
You might be a charismatic if:
you believe whatever your pastor or church leaders tell and teach you…
You chase after signs and wonders, annoint bedding, believe in generational curses and soul ties even if you are a christian.. If you can hop the highest and clap the loudest…
You believe that God might have a hearing problem and therefor shout very loud when you pray…
I was once that… Praise God for His mercy and getting me out of it.
You might be a Charismaniac if you:
Drive around the border of your county throwing salt, grapejuice, and little pieces of bread around and also bury teeny-tiny little passages of Scripture in metal tubes at selected high places in order to “take back the land”.
Re-enact the story of Gideon’s Army and three groups of you assemble on three selected “high places” in the county and at the stroke of midnight break clay pots, shine flashlights in the air, and blow shofars and scream out “A SWORD FOR THE LORD AND FOR GIDEON!!!”
If you have poster boards on the floor at the front and markers available for people to write words on them like “iniquity” and “injustice” and then you dance on them during worship.
All true stories. Actually I had fun at that church.
Left on good terms and still visit them sometimes.
They’re not that crazy anymore.
You also may be a Charismaniac if you are absolutely sure that the prayer and worship from your tiny little church in the middle of the woods in Central Pennsylvania will play a key and vital role in causing every tongue, tribe, and nation of the world to bend their knee and unanimously confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord.
And who knows, maybe it will.
Good one.. I remember stomping on my debts shouting out victory over them.. hahahahahahahha…
oh and pacing up and down a piece of land declaring it’s ours…
But in it, they are people… who believe whatever is told like i was once.. so we pray for them…
Hey Getting There,
Here’s another thing we did.
During intercession half of us lined up and assumed the identity of the Indians and the other half lined up and became the American settlers. Then we faced each other and repented and confessed and forgave each other for all of the harm that we had caused for one another. This too was in an effort to “redeem the land”.
Also we would repent and confess sins for every mass-murderer, despot and ne’er-do-well that we could think of, including Madeline Murray O’Hare (sp?).
I did my share of stomping, too.
But as you say, what the heck did we know?
Once as a young Charismatic puppydog we had a bonfire and my idea was to throw magazines on the fire and burn up certain spirits. For instance magazines like “Cosmopolitan” would represent Jezebel and “GQ” or “Esquire” would be for the Spirit of Ahab, see? We never did it. I guess they thought now I was just being silly.
So did that land ever become yours?
it was the church that wanted that land.. … so I don’t know..
I also threw away a lot of precious gifts given to me coz i was told they were bad..
and I recall a few bonfires too…
You might be a charismaniac if . . .
your church sells water bottles for $1 with a picture of the pastor and first lady on the label.
hahaha Zoe, good one!
I am not involved in such a church but my mother in law is DEEPLY involved in one….Does anyone know how I can help her out of such a thing? She and my father in law poor tons of money and time into this church but it fits nearly every thing on the list. I am not one to judge but it seems everyone else in the family can see what the church is about but my in-laws.
It’s hard to help someone who is deeply entrenched. As I’ve said of our own experience, while we were in the midst of it, it was almost as though we couldn’t see any of these things as wrong.
Perhaps the best thing you could do is ask some strategic questions. The “hard questions” about accountability, finances, and authority could get your in-laws thinking. It might not seem like it at the time, but if you were to ask something like, “Does the congregation get a full financial reporting of where every dollar goes?” that might plant a seed in your mother-in-law’s mind. Also, if her pastor gives frequent prophecies, ask her about his accuracy record, particularly with any “words” given to her specifically, or to people whom she knows well.
She will, of course, be likely to be very defensive about her church. “Charismaniac” churches train their people to be defensive and to see any and all criticism as potential “faith killers.” So be prepared for that, and try your best not to be confrontational.
But ask her the hard questions. It may seem like nothing happens, but likely, she’ll think about what you asked long after you asked it. And ultimately, cutting through the Charismaniac fog is really the work of the Holy Spirit. For us, it was like one day we were complete “True Believers,” and then we allowed ourselves to start asking questions, and before you know it, the scales had fallen off.
Thanks for the help…I am going to bring up the financial report but in a round about way. My mother in law’s preacher did prophside to me before I got married and she got some things right and some wrong. She predicted that my husband and I would have 2 children, one boy and one girl. We are now pregnant with our SECOND boy and are going to try for that girl in another year or so. I am sure that I will not be able to get through to her any time soon and I dont really feel like this church is hurting anything..except maybe filling my in-laws heads will crazy ideas that the end of time is right around the next bend and getting them to give a good chunk of their income. Their 3 children dont care for the church but no one will bring it up for fear of hurting their mother. Anyhow I do plan to see what I can do to help them see the light. Thanks for your help!
oh, I thought you might want to know that my in-law’s preacher is the Joyce Still Manzi….spoken of quite a bit on this page!
Hi again,
I just had to respond to Wondering….
This is what the none other than, Joyce Still Manzi did to us. Pretty much ruined our lives, breaking us finacially with her lies and false prophesies, helped put us in more debt that we could/can handle, almost ruining our faith (well my husband still isn’t quite right yet), of course saying “GOD SAID” We’d be the richest people she has ever seen she also said “God Said that my husband and I would have 3 children, 2 girls and 1 boy.
Well I had my tubes tied in a previous marriage, he DOES NOT, nor has ever wanted, children and we are well into our 40’s.
What a joke. She speaks lies…. so many people were hurt in our little church because of her FALSE prophesies… What happened in the old Testament when Prophet’s prophesies did not come to pass… they were stoned. So why is it people think its ok when a now time supposed prophet’s prophesies do not come to pass???? that is the question… No i do not in any way believe they should be put to death but that is sure a wake up call for those who follow these false prophets… WAKE UP!
She once told the same story that Robert Tilton told and used in his ministry to get people to give there last monies. OMG how sad is that!! One of the people in our church heard Tilton tell the story years before, then heard Joyce tell it as IF IT WHERE HER OWN, in our church. Well he was smart, he left our church…. we only found this out after we were burned by the false prophet…. show your relatives this letter.. ask them to contact me I will be happy to talk to them on the phone…. We are real, we were hurt, we were scarred, and we still live with the consequences of following such a person.
I pray your family gets away from her and such people…..
My husband has a running a joke. He is writing a book. “How to spot a False Prophet for just under $20,000”
We may still have some cynicism but it makes us laugh and after what we went thru because of her, laughter helps. We hope this helps someone, thats what counts, and the fact that they get back up, and believe real truth.
Do all of you still support and go to these churches ????
Just a thought. What you gonna do about it ??
Not being smart just a thought question……
Just to let you know – reposted at my forum 🙂
http://www.ruachfellowship.org/phpBB3/index.php
Oh my goodness, lol. NO we do not go to that church anymore or any other church that even seems similar! We have been to quite a few very normal, honest, decent churches.
Not all charismaniacal churches are wealthy though. Some are in rural areas and have very few people. Nevertheless, they are just as focused on “prosperity”, Scripture twisting and control. I would say that you know you’re a charismaniac when the pastor’s sermon is filled with psychobabble about emotions and feelings. When he sounds like Dr. Phil and repeats everything that you’ve just heard on TBN, you know you’re a charismaniac.
You know you’re a Charismatic when:
1) It seems that everyone you run into at church is called a prophet.
2) People from 11 counties flock to your church because the same big name preacher is coming to your church this year like he did last year to prophecy for this year what he prophesied last year…and the year before….and the year….
3) You receive a really questionable prophetic word and after you voice your doubts, you’re glibly told that “it might not be a ‘now’ word and you may have misread it and to put it on the shelf.”
4) Five different people tell you God told them who your future spouse is and none of them is the same.
I have one: You know you’re a charismaniac when all the women in the church morph into looking like the “First Lady.” They cut their hair like hers, they start to dress like her, they wear the same nail polish color, dye their hair after she dies hers, etc… Very sad!
Hey, Cherie…
Thanks for the comment, and welcome to the site. I really liked this observation! I have to smile, because at our church, this was SO true. It didn’t take long at all to pick up on the social cues and look to the “First Lady” to set the tone for style.
Wow, I didn’t read all the notations but it appears that you have never seen the Lord do miracles in a service.
I have seen this and have received them personally numerous times over 26 + years.
My prayer is that each and every one of you received more faith.
Love,
Gregory
GREGORY…I have personally been healed by the LORD from cancer so I know first hand of the goodness and faithfulness of God…that’s not the issue. TRUTH is the issue. There is a difference between divine Christ centered healing and man-centered false-fire that is congered up by false teachers and false prophets. If you are currently in a word of faith church…GET OUT!!
Greg,
Truly, what miracles have YOU seen the Lord do in a service?
I’m not talking migraines, or where a supposedly “deaf” person (interestingly enough, never a profoundly deaf person, deaf from birth) recovers hearing in his ear. I’m not talking being healed from a backache or a shoulder ache.
I’ve seen those sorts of healings at the miracle services we used to have from time to time at our Charismaniac church.
My two nagging questions, the two things that always bothered me, were these: why did it seem like the caliber of these healings was so much more wimpy than the kinds of stuff that Jesus did (in other words, the miracles that happened at our church were always rather vague and could easily be explained as psychosomatic)? and, why were the people with the “hard cases” – the truly blind guy, the 10-year-old in her wheelchair, almost all those dying of the “can’t-be-cured” types of cancer – ALWAYS passed over in favor of the migraines and backaches?
I guess I have a third nagging question, too, come to think of it – why were so many people showily declared healed not actually healed? In one service, my 4-year-old daughter’s friend was declared healed from her pretty bad vision problems. She removed her eyeglasses and was able to say how many fingers the visiting evangelist was holding up. The crowd went wild. I can still picture her parents jumping up and down, crying. (And oddly, it wasn’t like she was blind – she just needed glasses.) She went without her glasses for awhile after that. It was kind of a big deal. But within a matter of months, she was wearing them again, the same exact prescription.
I desperately wanted to believe in these sorts of healings. I really did. I used to go around and talk up the stuff that happened at our church. I even sometimes knowingly engaged in what I’d call “Charismatic Exaggeration,” making the stories sound even more dramatic than they actually were.
But after awhile, I had to admit that none of this stuff was remotely like what Jesus did. I’m not saying that having one’s migraine go away isn’t an amazing miracle. But if you’re going to pump up the crowd to believe that things are exactly the same today as they were in the New Testament, then why were truly documented handicaps – someone with, say, a severed spinal cord – NEVER healed at these services?
On a broader scale, the stories I’d hear from other churches were always more like urban legends. They were always two steps removed from being documentable.
In the case of someone like Benny Hinn, he has camera crews all around. It’d be absolutely SIMPLE for his crews to follow a few of the more exciting cases from his crusades to their homes – similar to how American Idol will frequently show contestants going about their daily lives. Yet for all the funds Benny Hinn collects, there seems to never be enough money available to fund camera crews to do follow-ups on the people who run around his stage, supposedly healed.
Why can’t Charismatics just be honest and admit that these healing services are what they are – a place where you might be healed if you have an ailment that is vague and mostly in your own head.
I’m NOT saying that God CAN’T do these things. He’s God, and He can do anything. All I’m saying is that in my experience – and yours, too, if you’d be honest – these things do not happen at these “miracle shows.”
They don’t. If they did, the cameras would have captured far more of the story by now.
You rarely think in terms of friendship or of submitting one to another, but think in terms of unilateral relationships… spiritual head, mentor, discipler, spiritual father/mother, etc.
You see your role in the body in terms of an “assignment” and/or you see people in terms of “assignments,” instead of in terms of servanthood, loving the brethren, deferring to others, or bearing one another’s burdens.
Went to one of these mega churches 16 years. Did an enormous amount of behind the scenes stuff. Yet, pastor never had a word for me, seems he felt I wasn’t giving enough (obviously financially). Well, I am fully word of faith/pentecostal; I have laid hands and prayed over SEVERAL deceased persons who got up, have prayed over cancer victims many times who were healed, etc. None of these things were ever associated with Pastor Big Wig, yet somehow I wasn’t qualified, or worthy of his time/encouragement/word. Jesus said “If ye believe on me, the works that I do, you may do also, and greater works than these”. Its amazing how many miracles Jesus did, and HOW FEW INVOLVED OFFERINGS/MONEY. Yeah, guess the church still has a lot to learn. JESUS SAVES.JESUS HEALS. JESUS DOES MIRACLES THROUGH US WHO DO BELIEVE. No one man/minister/prophet has any right to claim basically ,they are the way to god. May all the false prophets burn with their father the devil. AMEN
If someone is sick and doesn’t get better, they’re kicked out and forgotten because OBVIOUSLY they are in “rebellion” and the sickness is all their fault.
Bonus points if the pastor (mis)quotes Job for support.
Oh my, reading the list and the comments just made me really sad. Reminded me of how the Church was before Martin Luther’s Protestant Reformation. Everything, including salvation was equated with money.
I pray that the Holy Spirit within the members of such churches will open their minds and eyes to see the truth that is written in the Bible. I pray that the Holy Spirit will stir within them and point out all the falsehoods.
And you know what? Such churches aren’t only in the US and Australia. Even churches in Asia aren’t spared such lies. I guess the end is really near, with the rise of so many false teachers Jesus spoke about.
You might be a charismaniac,
– If the preacher at your church opens an alter call and says “the glory is here” instead of saying “Jesus died for you and will forgive you of your sins”
-If people are worshipping extravagantly in an extremely individualistic way oblivious to everyone else but still aware enough to see what’s going on around the room, almost as in competition between each other to see who’s more spiritual. Their faces look as if they’re constipated, as if they’re trying too hard, and the flag wavers and dancers are seen as more spiritual than everyone else.
– If you feel guilty for not going in front of the church during praise and worship because this is what very spiritual people do…along with super serious faces, very strange moves, and very strange noises.
– If you feel having feelings is a bad thing. Your church teaches that feelings are a bad thing. So you repress everything and feel emptier and emptier until you are numb. This is taught to be a good thing because you are “dying to yourself”
– If you try to use your gifts and someone tells you you are out of line because you haven’t gone through training, conference YXZ, submission special summit etc.
-If your pastor looks like a movie star and wears Prada and Gucci
– If your pastor’s wife wears 3 tons of makeup – litterally-
-If men in the church tell women to submit, even when they are being abused, emotionally and verbally assaulted and disrespected.
– If teenagers walk around dressed and talking extremely worldly-like and tell their youth pastor they’re going clubbing and the youth pastor says “awesome, let’s go together”
– If all of the preachers’s sermons revolve around angels, glory, fire, triple anointings, double favor and now even triple favor, take back what the devil stole from me, it’s my year for a breakthrough, the devil is a liar, super prosperity, angelic visitations, traveling and revival angels, now even cleaning angels (who clean your house for you while you’re gone on holiday), slain in the spirit, BUT NEVER DO YOU HEAR ANYTHING SUBSTANTIAL ON REPENTANCE AND JESUS BLOOD
– If your pastors throws in words like “Jesus” and “the cross” just to make it sound he is balanced when you know it is just a feeble attempt to mask his own lack of a heart for the true gospel
– When all the single women in church want to marry the single handsome preacher. I mean COME ON. I’m a single woman and I know God has the perfect man for me, why would I need to run after a man?
– When your church has 1000 conferences, retreats, cruise ship retreats, special meetings of the anointing, special convocation of the prophets, prophet summits, Glory Signs and Wonders conferences in one single year.
– When your pastor never even shows up on Sundays. He’s always traveling somewhere leading a conference.
I have more!!
– If you’re talking about homosexuality and immediately people beat you on the head with scriptures and say the fires of hell will consume them. There is absolutely no way to discuss the topic, ever. If you do, you are “entertaining” sin in your mind and you aren’t “radical against sin”
– If your ears and head are starting to hurt from all the shouting, loud music you’ve been subjected to for hours but you can’t even fill the love of God inside your heart
-If you’ve been sitting in a service for 5 hours and it’s still preaching time and you not dare slip out in case people see you as unspiritual
– You always hear the preacher condemning the same sins: homosexuality (big number one), rebellion to authority (as in himself and his staff), CNN journalists and liberal media (we worship FOX NEWS, hello??), democrats (they’re all drunks and stupid sinners), drug use, smoking, drinking etc.
BUT ODDLY ENOUGH YOU NEVER EVER OR VERY RARELY hear them condemn other very important sins such as greed (wonder why?), racism (most charismania churches are comprised of one single ethnicity who dislikes every other race… and when they mingle it’s still very clickish like), abuse of authority (hmm wonder why too), PRIDE (wonder again why?), exalting angels above Jesus…etc etc
– The Pastor’s wife thinks she’s so special she needs to wear the most expensive clothes made on earth to prove the point she is “fearfully and wonderfully made”
– The choir goes gaga during worship for awhile but when the pastor shows up, everything falls flat like it never happened, like it never mattered. People go from “crying in the glory” to “looking like a wax statutes with no emotions” in half a second
MORE
– If your church has little groups. There’s the group of the most special spiritual ones always praying and quoting scriptures, the group of the ones with low self esteem who are at the altar every single Sunday, the group of the ones who can never get healed no matter how much they pray, the group of the ones who eat too much, the group of those always preaching even at restaurants who can never be quiet and are very irritating, the group of those who never talk and you wonder if they’re even part of the church,the group of those that you’ve never seen before because church members/attendees fluctuates 24/7, the group of the special ones who are always around the pastor and the first shady, the group of teenagers who look so miserable like they’re going to kill someone in a second, the group of the seniors who think they know everything and scold everyone else with advice and finally the group of zombie look alike who wonder what they’re doing here.
-If everyone wears jeans even the preacher, and maybe has tatoos, hey this is the new cool thing to do, if you ain’t doing it you’re religious !
– If everyone thinks you’re demon possessed because you got drunk last night or had sex. Instead of looking at human beings as just that…with weaknesses and emotions, they attribute everything to the devil…the devil made me do it !!!
– You feel guilty just for watching desperate housewife or Lost. It’s very unspiritual and the anointing will lift off you
…and finally how could I forget?
If your house is full of anointing handkerchiefs, anointing oils, specially prayed-over cloths, red cloth point of contact, miracle water, green cloth double of contact, double favor miracle soap, triple favor DVD teaching set, Israel special anointing oil LIKE NO OTHER, beautiful bracelet prayer of Jabez which holds super power, another cloth white this time with sweat representing the anointing, super quadruple miracle anointing olive oil straight out of the land of Israel where Jesus HIMSELF walked (his has got to work, if all the rest fails THIS HAS GOT TO WORK)
…All sent via first class by a prophet on TBN.
heh. good stuff.
If you use phrases like pleading the blood of Jesus, naming, it claiming it, or you believe you can speak things into existence.
I was with a church similar to this. I cringed when I heard someone so naively say, “The pastor” or “The apostle” and then A Word that came from them and you knew it was based on some word of knowledge and not the scriptures. But did most people even know it was suppose to be a word of knowledge, a spiritual gift. No, it was just A Word, in fact most people knew nothing of the scriptures anyway.
That’s nothing new…but here’s a new one.
You left since the new small church you were with seem hollow on anything biblical. But you messed up later, went into depression, and later after true repenting and praying your mind cleared up. You were healed. All of this happened without being a member of any church.
So you go back to church and it’s obvious you were blessed by God. But you don’t know the “new doctrine” of “you get blessed by God through obedience to The Pastor.” And this is when the small church is now over 1000 people. But the pastor is surprised and alarmed, if not challenged, how God would heal you apart from him.
Long story short that’s what happen with me. And it didn’t take me long to pick up on this. I was blessed (over used word) by God BEFORE I went back to this church…only to leave a few years later.
For all of these guys listed, it’s all characteristics of a false prophet. False teachers and lying wonders.
They probably have never cast out any demons or healed anyone, but they think they have. So much so they will probably tell Jesus they did when He returns.
I Never Knew You
Mat7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” 2 Tim 4:3-4
These are really very and the false teachers/apostles/prophets will be held accountable. the other side of this coin contains “itching ears” etc., described above, who are regular folk, ungrounded in the word, who fill the pews.
So it’s a two sided coin. When I was attracted to WOF teachers, it was reading the word and the Berean principle that brought ne out of it, along with real life being a bit different that the false promises provided from the pulpit/stage.
Having said that, we who were bamboozled can’t blame it all on the bamboozelers. We have in ourselves, because we live in sin trained flesh, a tendency to think about Christianity as being all about what we can get from God, rather than being about the reason we are he as Christians, which is to spread the good news that Christ died for the sins of His people, not their best life now.
Just some thoughts.
what ever happened to just praying to the Lord as we are taught to?I myself find that when I’m having a problem,God himself has showed me in THE BIBLE AND IN PRAYER,that it’s him who answers our prayers,and we don’t need all of this non-sense that,s offered up to these so-called anointed ones!God does not always heal because he knows whats best for his child,and his purpose for that child,again the Apostle Paul comes to mind!I have asked God to heal me of things in my life,and he has in some cases,But I have also learned to ask God to be with me when I go through things,as he said he will never leave me nor forsake me!!!We are always to trust God for he knows best!All this other garbage that is being taught in charismatic churches is just that ,Garbage.A little over 17 years ago I was healed from a life of drinking and drugs ,my mother and family would prayer that God would stop me from all the abuse I was doing to myself and to others,when everybody finally gave up on it,not me ,when people told God that they have had it,when people got it in there hearts that everything is Gods way and Gods timing,things came together.One really bad night,after a day of some really heavy drinking,and a really bad time ,my mother asked God to take care of me,as she could not do this anymore.She went home,and I passed out.The next day when I woke up,I could not have another drink of do another drug again!GOD totally removed the desire to do any of that from my life ,and I have been sober since that day.We can move Gods heart to help us,but God does what he wants ,when he wants ,and how he wants!And all the laying on of hands,and all the other things that people think that they can do for you are there own doings,God does what he wants……….Remember he IS God!!!”Be still and Know I Am GOD!!!
Ooops: “Pentecostals have the best musicians?” I think that particular quality is found in
1. Lutheran
2. Roman Catholic
3. Episcopal
churches. Those are, after all, the churches of
1. Bach, Schütz, Telemann, Pachelbel and Mendelssohn
2. Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven
3. Purcell, Handel (he was a Lutheran but wrote for Anglicans), Byrd, Vaughan Williams.
I was looking for funny things to put in our church bulletin… I read the article and the comments and it just struck me as sad. I am unashamedly Pentecostal and over half of what has been said on this blog I have never in 27 years seen or heard. That’s not only in my home church but in the many hundreds of churches that I have visited… Not to mention camp-meetings, youth camps, youth events… There are always going to be people that push the envelope, fake it, or are hypocrites but not all of Pentecost is that way. Also… I would really like to know how COGIC is considered Pentecost?? I love their music…. but to my understanding they are not Pentecostal. In my thinking the religion of Pentecost holds true to the tenants of inward and outward holiness, repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost yet is essential to salvation, and doing your best to live a godly and holy life. COGIC and other charismatic type churches (to my knowledge) believe in the trinity, have little to no outward holiness but speak in tongues and have what people perceive as “typical pentecost”. I would really like for one of you to come to my church…. My pastor has always preached that there is no chaos in the kingdom of God and everything should be done decently and in order. This includes worship even though we believe in liberty to worship it does not get stupid. It sounds like many of you have had horrible experiences and there’s no way I can make you forget that…. But not all of Pentecost (as I know it) has the characteristics that you described here. I hope all of find a better church to go to.
@ Been There ….
In reply to your statement about speaking in tongues. It made me laugh because (and I say this kindly) you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. But that could be your old churches fault…
There are different types of speaking in tongues and a interpreter is not always needed. I am not a scholar or anything like that… but to my understanding you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues…
Oftentimes during worship services at my church there are many people speaking in tongues…. Being renewed in the Holy Ghost, praising God in tongues as mentioned in Titus 3:5. Isa. 28:11-12 specifically speaks of speaking in tongues and it being “as a refreshing”. 1 Corinthians 14:2 says For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Then 1 Corinthians 14:3-5 – But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. —-
And if you want to get really technical there was no interpreter on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 – People thought they were drunk and wondered how they could be speaking all the different languages. Acts 2:4 the Holy Ghost was first poured out … Verses 6-13 – The multitude did not understand what was happening and how those filled with the Holy Ghost could be speaking languages they had not been taught. Also Acts 2:36-39 & Acts 11:13-17.
Then there is tongues and interpretation which is completely different! More often than not this happens when the Holy Ghost is lingering… It’s almost like a hush comes in the sanctuary… Everyone is still praying but then ONE person will give a message in tongues… and either that same person or a different person will interpret what was said. Then after the message is given we worship and thank God for speaking to us. Referencing again 1 Corinthians 14:3-4… Also 1 Corinthians 14:12-14 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. — It is stated that this is a spiritual gift. Not everyone has the gift of tongues and interpretation but everyone should and can receive the initial gift of the Holy Ghost.
Then there is Intercessory Prayer that is also speaking in tongues but has a different purpose…
Whether or not you believe in it is not my problem. But if you are going to speak sarcastically about speaking in tongues then at least have it right. The lack of knowledge for the Bible is not an excuse to use when people have a bad experience – As much as I love my Pastor I study my Bible and know what it says for myself. As bad as your experience was … It is no excuse – We are mandated by scripture to know the word of God, to know scripture, to have the truth and sell it not. I’m sorry for everyone bad experiences but I can’t fix them and I can’t make all the weirdo’s of the world and those that take “liberty in the Holy Ghost” to the extremes away… But I can tell you that not every Pentecostal church is like the ones described in this post.
danelle84,
Thanks for the comment.
I think you might be missing the point. If your church doesn’t exhibit these characteristics, then your church isn’t “Charismaniac.”.
How sad. I know Joyce Still Manzi is just a human. I have been to several meetings when she comes to our area over quite a few years. I give if I feel that is what I am to do. I personally have had healing from her ministry. I had pain in my right lower abdomen that would come and go from the time I was a small child. It might happen 1-2 times a year I never had medical insurance so I never went to a doctor. The last few years of pain were much worse. It became 2-3 times a week and I would drop on the bed and cry for 30 minutes to 3-hours. She described my problem without knowing and said that it was an “inflamation” that comes and goes. She prayed for me and I thought ” I’ll see if it happens again. I have been free of that pain for about 10 years! I work at a prison now and could not have worked there if I had not been healed. The pain immobilized me while it happened. Another time she called me out. I had been on antibiotics for 280 days for a lung abscess (This was life threatening-according to the lung specialist) I got liver damage from the medicine. I was swollen and miserable across my torso. She described it and prayed for me and it was instantly well.
My husband had a hernia on his abdomen which she named and prayed for him. He felt warmth and the hernia went flat and he was healed and has been fine for several years.
I have seen photos of her home on google maps and it is not gated and looks comfortable but not extravagant.
I have a friend who worked for the state for years and held her phone receiver between her ear and shoulder all day. When she retired, she was diagnosed as having a “frozen shoulder”. I took her to a Joyce Still meeting and she was the first person called out and her condition was accurately described. She was prayed for and instantly healed. The doctors and physical therapists couldn’t help her and she couldn’t use that arm very much without extreme pain.
Many of your posted comments are more about “shepherd and discipleship” groups. Look them up in cult information books. We were in one for 6 years and a lot surely described them. Excessive control. etc. No going away parties, only disfellowshipping ones.
all of the people that are making comments that are pro-charismatic let me ask you a question,would you say that what the Kenneth Copeland, Crefflo Dollar , Hagin, Rick Joyner,Rick warren, and the rest of them are teaching the word of God correctly? Have you ever watched these “Men of God ” go off on there on tangents? They are completely out of control!Between all of the tribal drumming,chanting, mantras ,and all the “tongues Speaking I wonder If God himself knows what they are saying.Running all over the money that is thrown up on stage,we are all little God’s, slain in the spirit non-sense.This is absolute chaos and mayhem! When you say that the “Holy Spirit is lingering around ,what does that mean? Is he looking for a place to go? I don’t mean to sound so hyper-critical, but this is not the God that I know and love.Everyone is saying that the holy spirit is doing a new thing ,what might that be?Turning people into barking dogs? People flying around churches like eagles? Holy laughing? Slain in the spirit?God himself says that he is God and he does not change, then explain to me why he is changing now??? He says that he does not change.Humm? Most of what I have seen and heard is borderline witchcraft, and if anyone of you ever took the time you would see that all of this stuff is pagan worship.You have no idea what God has said because you worship on your feelings instead of just praying to the Lord and asking him to guide him in all things. Remember,Satan is a counterfeiter,and he will do all that he can to deceive ,even possibly the elect if he can. I have seen enough in my 48 years to know the difference in what is said and done in wrong worship and what is right.And hopping on a plane to fly off to some other country to go and find the holy spirit is absurd! And you can not prove any differently. You think that you can just fly to someplace to go and get touched by God? If he is your Lord and Savior you are already touched by him! You are wasting your time and money flying all over the world hoping that the holy spirit will show up.He is in your heart if you are saved ,and all you need to do is go into your prayer closet and shut the door and speak to the father ,like he said to do! Please take the time to read your bible and let God lead you and not some movement or some false religious sect that is leading you down the wrong path.
Years ago the Copelands and Hagins were really great and got many into the Word of God and accessing the supernatural. Then the $$$s started coming. Osteens ministry processes some 200 MILLION a year and spends virtually ALL OF IT ON MORE TV TIME so he can peddle books of his. They claim that all thier sermons/books/cds are thier “intellectual property”. UH….NO THEY ARE NOT. They are Gods property and He FREELY GAVE THEM TO YOU so you can FREELY GIVE THEM TO THE CHURCH.
you know you are a charasmaniac if you believe that Paul Crouch is a man of God and straight. You are a charasmaniac if you think that he and his wife actually live together and for that matter, in the same state.
My girlfriend goes to a small penecostal church…she txt me saying that she’s breaking up with me becouse her pastor thru prayer told her that “us being together” isn’t of god….where the heck does pastors/ministers/priests get the notion that they can prophesize when only prohets can do that…I thought these teachers were only allowed to teach the scripture? Shame on these “false prophets misleading the sheep!!
Im a word of faith/pentecostal believer and have seen many miracles in my time. I still see the point here as this whole thing has fallen into what I can only call witchcraft. I had a very questionable incident with Ms Stills where a STRANGE prophesy was made concerning my demise and it did come to pass. It caused me to almost terminate any relationship with God, but then He began to show me some things in the form of some questions such as WHAT HAD I EVER DONE FOR THAT CLAMITY TO COME FORTH, and why would a prophet of God deliberatley prophesy for a believer to be destroyed.
She never had any problem with that and will not face me since. Another guy from Arkansas did a similar thing and I ran him out of town. We are suposed to “try the spirits” as many different kinds of spirits will try to foretell something or cast a curse on some one.
This is all serious business and Jesus is watching. These people like the million dollar boy Mike Murrdock who never met a $10k offerring he didnt like…..and Mr happy boy Osteen and the “favor of the gods” speeches like it was ancient Rome and we all have to please Zues.
Its paganism on a grand scale. For those who have sowed an earnest seed of faith and seen a manifestation result, I’ll wager it was a stupid and lowly seed that only you could believe in like the widows 2 mites. Its the faith that works it not the size.
Its really sad at how many have really been hurt by all this. My sincerest prayers go out to you all. God knows. I think the most important spiritual gift of all is Discernment so we know who and what we are dealing with. Im concentrating on that one MORE AND MORE in these last days. Im letting Jesus be my pastor, my annointing, and my prophet from now on.
Kevin, you need to get some sound Christian instruction. It’s not that pastors are unnecessary, much less that they’re bad; it’s that the people you followed up to now aren’t real pastors. Go to your nearest Missouri Synod Lutheran church; they will give you sound teaching, and you will see that their pastors are not trying to get rich off you, unlike the charlatans who have so disappointed you.
I think that so much bologna is out there that people want to believe something. What I find very interesting is the fact that so many of the Now-a-day “prophets” charge all this money so you can get a prophesy on your own personal cd, and its $77 for 7 days of prophesy, or $ 88 for 8 days …etc…I basically was asked to leave a church because I questioned church doctrine because to me what they were saying was not what the bible said! I would rather stand alone with God, then with the sheeple that blindly follow those who have no idea what they are talking about…
It is my first time visiting your site and I had a really good chuckle. I see this goes way back to 2007! and absolutely nothing has changed and in fact has become a lot worse. Where I live, I cannot for the life of me find a church where I can attend without having to keep my eyes and ears like radars because of the nonsense being said. But, I want to add to your list also, The last church I attended, if you wanted to share something you first had to by pass the elder in the event that you might not be in line with the morning’s sermon or may not be according to the Church’s gospel. I thought Christians go to church and Christians line themselves up with the Word of God. Boy, was I wrong.
if u leave and you are told you won’t be blessed u if don’t leave right..
but do not let them see you doing it, you are told to give $ ending in 7, $7 or 20.07 for God to complete things in your life, everything is a demon or a spirit that needs to be cast out, the 1st lady gets jealous easily & wants to outdo others, you are praying with someone & they come up to move you out of the way “I got it!” you are told to run around 7 times all the time, you are told God won’t give you more power than the pastor & his wife, everything is the anointing but they never tell you what the anointing is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ahhhhhhh they always say i can see in the spirit, dance in the spirit, in the spirit, in the spirit, oh and if you do not speak in another tongue then you are not filled with the holy ghost which is a lie, paul said do all speak in an unknown tongue? they are always talking about going higher to another level!!!
you need to listen to the spirit of rahab cd, you don’t have a covering, you will have the same problems at another church, everytime you asked 4prayer for someone they tell you to anoint their shoes & clothes & car
Wow! That’s quite a list! I’m not so sure how helpful it is for identifying charismaniacs, although some of the items will aid in doing so. It seems like some of the items are more aligned with identifying prosperity gospel types, than charismaniacs. While the two often flock together, they are not identical.
Some of the items have so many logical exceptions, that they are not helpful at all! There are a lot of good churches, where it is customary to call the pastor’s wife the first lady, often in the African-American community. People in the home church movement would expect their pastor to own their home, but then again, they would define the church as the people, not the building (by the way, this is biblical). So many of these things – like the standing ovation – could be good or bad, based on the motives of the participants. If they are standing out of respect for God’s Word, that’s a good thing. If they are giving the pastor an excessive measure of honor, that’s not good.
There are a lot of messed up doctrines and practices out there, and it’s good to warn others of their existence. I just want to caution you to do so in a balanced manner.
Why not list chapter and verse references from God’s Word with each item, so you can teach the uninstructed, rather than just preach to the choir?
For instance, 1 Timothy 6:3-20 handles a lot of these things, especially the preoccupation with money.