Why it matters…

Like someone who Googles the name of an old boyfriend or girlfriend, I admit that I still keep tabs on our old Charismatic church.  Both my husband and I regularly visit the website of Living Word Church (a pseudonym, as are all other non-household names used on this site).  We still read the promotional materials we occasionally receive in the mail.  And when Pastor Smith’s (again, not his real name) section on iTunes is updated - which doesn’t seem to happen all that regularly - I confess that I will at least attempt to listen to his latest podcast.

(My husband, though, simply does not have the stomach for listening to any more of Pastor Smith’s preaching.  He avoids what Living Word puts up on iTunes, and if I’m listening to the podcasts while he’s in the room, he’ll ask that I do so through headphones.  He still finds himself too burned by our experiences at Living Word to be able to tolerate even the sound of Pastor Smith’s voice.)

I, on the other hand, tend to get a peculiar sense of comfort out of hearing Pastor Smith and his frequent heresies.  I know that might seem a bit odd, but to me, picking out the false teachings embedded in what seem like otherwise biblical teachings serves as reinforcement for why we left.

So the other day, I was listening to Pastor Smith’s latest sermon available on iTunes.  It is entitled something like, “Enlarge and Inherit” (a loose paraphrase of the actual title).  As I listened, I was both surprised (why, I do not know, as you’d think I’d expect it by now) and comforted by Pastor Smith’s “take” on how a few verses in Exodus about the Israelites’ possession of the Promised Land apply to Christians today.  I’m probably never again going to transcribe an entire Smith sermon, but that doesn’t mean there’s a shortage of falsehoods still being promoted from Living Word’s pulpit these days.

Pastor Smith’s latest sermon is all about inheriting our destiny…and how doing so sometimes involves “standing still and seeing the deliverance of the Lord” (as the children of Israel had done during the parting of the Red Sea) and sometimes involves fighting for what’s rightfully ours.  Smith preaches for over an hour about this single idea.  He does his usual spiel about how the devil wants to steal, kill, and destroy what ought to be ours…how each of us has our own unique God-given “destiny” to fulfill on this earth…how we are meant to prosper and be blessed in our destiny…how, when we have a “God said” over our lives (meaning something that “God told” us, either through a prophetic word delivered to us personally by a prophet, or through “God speaking” to us individually), this thing MUST happen…and how sometimes we must “stand still” and let God be God, but sometimes we must do battle for the breakthrough into our destiny.

As I listened to Pastor Smith’s words, I had several reactions.

One was, oddly enough, boredom.  Despite the energy and drama of his singularly forceful, gravelly voice and the enthusiasm and authority of his delivery, I had a difficult time staying focused on what he was actually saying.  I found that it all began to run together, just so much mumbo jumbo about “destiny” and “harvest” and “victory” and “battle.”

Another reaction, though, was a renewed sense of curiosity.  Pastor Smith began putting his sermons up on iTunes only since we left Living Word, so I can’t easily click on over to messages from years ago, back when we still attended.  I find myself wondering who changed? - Pastor Smith, or us?  Did he always preach like that, hammering away on the theme of our “destiny”?  Where did he ever come up with the Scriptural backing for this idea, anyway?  Where in the Bible does it say that the point of our salvation is so that we can walk in our own unique purposes, which are (supposedly) to include “no limits,” “untold blessings” (which ALWAYS translates into MONEY), and “influence”?

I can remember sermons like this one, but I also remember always believing that Pastor Smith was very well-grounded in God’s Word.  I believed that all his messages were firmly rooted in Scripture.  Unless he’s really changed in recent months (which of course is always a possibility), I wonder how I was lulled and tricked into accepting what actually amounts to a whole lot of unbiblical rah-rah talk about living a successful life - successful according to the world’s standards, NOT God’s.  How did I sit through years of that sort of preaching and still think Smith was teaching us principles from the Bible?

Another thought I had while listening (and later, processing) this latest sermon is that Smith’s greatest, most unscriptural error is rooted in his false understanding of what the Bible has to say about the “end times.”

Prior to our years at Living Word Church, I’d never been one to care much about eschatology.  Teachings about the “last days,” about the “Great Tribulation,” about the Antichrist, caused my brain to check out.  I’d find myself making mental (or sometimes even actual) grocery lists.  But when, about eighteen months ago, we began to seriously question what we were being taught about money and “blessings” and the “triumphant end-times church” and the “billion-soul harvest,” I gradually came to realize that unless I gained a better understanding of Scripture in this area, I had no real way to discern if any of Pastor Smith’s thinking was faulty.

So I began to do some digging, some reading.  I purchased Paul Benware’s Understanding End Times Prophecy, a volume I’d highly recommend because it gives a good general overview of the most pervasive end-times views.  I also did a lot of reading online. 

I discovered, to my dismay, that Pastor Smith apparently subscribes to what is known as “Kingdom Theology” - the notion that as we approach the return of Christ, God’s people - via the church - are going to grow more and more powerful, more and more wealthy, more and more triumphant politically and spiritually.  According to Smith, there is going to be a “great end-times harvest,” where billions of souls will be saved through an outpouring of “signs and wonders.”  Pastor Smith would often declare, “Christ is not coming back for a tattered, defeated church!  He will only return for a glorious bride!”  Therefore, it was our duty to “take authority” over every sphere of our lives.  We were to “take dominion” and reign victoriously in our workplaces, in the political realm, in the areas of physical healing and personal relationships.  We were treated often to phrases like, “The devil is a liar, and he is under our feet!”  Or…even more often, a phrase that I really never quite understood (still don’t):  “The Kingdom suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.”  We were often exhorted to go out and “take it by force.”  Through “spiritual warfare,” we would be ambassadors of Christ and would bring His saving message (which apparently centers around the glory of our dominion far more than it centers on Jesus saving us from our sins) to the masses.

This was, as I’ve said before, some heady stuff.  After years of plodding along in what felt like the doldrums of the seemingly ”non-triumphant” Baptist/Evangelical world, it was incredible to hear that we’d actually had it all wrong, that Christians are NOT going to experience increasing persecution as the end nears, but instead are going to gain more and more influence over our culture and over our world. 

I’ve never quite figured out if Pastor Smith subscribes to the whole enchilada of teachings involved in the “Manifest Sons of God” doctrine, which actually (in their fullness) deny Jesus’ bodily return in the clouds but instead claim that Christ’s return will happen gradually, as the church unites and triumphs and sort of morphs into Christ Himself.  But I believe it’s fairly safe to say that Pastor Smith IS firmly in the “Kingdom Theology”/”Triumphant End-Times Church” camp.

This is why Smith feels so free to teach that God wants Christians to be rich.  Although himself a friend of fancy cars, luxury vacations, and new custom homes, Pastor Smith’s punch line for “financial overflow” always involved how we needed to be “blessed” financially so that we could “sow into the work of the kingdom.”  How would we reach people with the Gospel, Smith would ask rhetorically, if we were poor and defeated?

(I always did wonder, even back when I never otherwise questioned Pastor Smith, how it was that he figured the Apostles got the early church off the ground and experienced such raging success, considering that most of them were neither rich nor politically well-connected but were instead oftentimes arrested, beaten, and imprisoned?)

Anyway…all of this is to say that I feel compelled to urge you, readers, to dedicate some time to studying the different views of “end-times” events.  Figure out for yourselves what you believe in this area - or, more importantly, commit to discovering what the BIBLE has to say about the “end times.”

Does the Bible REALLY say that we Christians are going to increase in power and glory before Christ’s return?  Does the Bible teach that we’re all going to be rolling in wealth and influence when Jesus comes in the clouds for His church?  Does the Bible teach us that we’re going to “take the world by force” to “establish Christ’s kingdom”?

Even more importantly, does the Bible actually tell us that we Christians are going to abound more and more in “signs and wonders”?

(Or does the Bible actually teach - as I now believe it does - that false signs and wonders will increase and deceive many, leading them to believe in the Antichrist?)

With all the hoopla over Todd Bentley’s “Healing Revival” in Lakeland, Florida, I think these questions have even greater significance as we work to discern what is of God, and what is not.  I’ve learned the hard way that a Biblical understanding of the “end times” actually DOES matter.

Here are a couple of websites I’ve found very helpful lately:

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/

http://www.erwm.com/KingdomTheology1.htm

If you know of others, post them in a comment below.

 

One of those tiny little things…

Having grown up in a pretty conservative, Bible-teaching Evangelical church, one of the values I absorbed was having respect for God’s name.  At the Christian school I attended as a child, it was even frowned upon to use the exclamation of, “Oh my gosh!”  So ingrained in me was this viewpoint that, although I realize that this is a shallow (and, obviously, unreliable) litmus test, if I heard someone say, “Oh God!” in a fashion that was not seriously prayerful, I generally assumed that this person did not share my basic outlook on God’s Word.

So when, several years ago, we made the jump from our more staid Evangelical/Baptist church to an independent Charismatic congregation, one of the tiny little things that bothered me from the get-go was the way our pastor - whom I’ll call “Pastor Smith,” though that is a pseudonym - would often use the expression, “My God!” when he was preaching or ministering.

As far as I could tell, he did not do it in a way that was respectful or prayerful.  Instead, he would inject this exclamation into his sermons or into times of “ministry” (when he was prophesying or praying for people) to give his own words extra emphasis.  The phrase was never addressed to God Himself.

My gut reaction always was that when he’d do this, Pastor Smith was taking the Lord’s name in vain.

Of course, as the years passed, I pretty much forced myself to get used to it.  I told myself that it was cultural.  Certainly, just about every Charismatic/Word of Faith preacher I heard seemed to do the same thing.  During our time at Living Word Church (another pseudonym), we were privy to appearances by folks such as Gary Oliver, Paula White, Jesse DuPlantis, and T.D. Jakes, all of whom frequently interjected “My God!” while preaching, primarily for dramatic effect (I could never see any other reason for it).  When I’d watch other Charismatic luminaries (like Juanita Bynum) on TBN, I’d hear more of the same. 

A part of me - the part that wanted to buy into every last little aspect of my new Word of Faith outlook - figured that I was just being legalistic and stuffy when Pastor Smith’s seemingly irreverent use of “My God!” continued to trouble me.  But I could never fully get over the unsettling jolt that would shoot through my heart when he would do this. 

I’m not someone given to dramatic exaggerations, either - I would literally feel a sickening stab in my gut whenever Pastor Smith would practically interrupt himself to shout, “My God!”  It was even worse when he would use the phrase, “Oh God” in a sort of sarcastic way, like when he was being humorous with his audience and rolling his eyes at them for something or other.  He didn’t do this as often, but whenever he did, I almost couldn’t get past it to hear the rest of his sermon, no matter how hard I tried.

I was thinking about this recently, in part because I stumbled upon a site discussing the much-trumpeted “revival” led by Todd Bentley, which is currently taking place in Lakeland, Florida.  While watching some clips of Mr. Bentley ministering at these meetings, it suddenly occurred to me that here was yet another Charismatic preacher who did the exact same thing - who used God’s name in a way that was more like swearing rather than prayerfully, reverently addressing the Lord.

I don’t really have anything profound to say about this practice, except that I find it interesting that so many of these guys (and gals) openly break one of the Ten Commandments from the pulpit.  Why is this OK?  Why do these folks do this?  Why do the Christians sitting in the pews - many of whom would never themselves use God’s name as an irreverent exclamation - tolerate it?

I’m wondering if perhaps this is one of those obvious signs, something “hidden in plain sight,” that perhaps ought to alert us to when all is not right?  That perhaps we shouldn’t be so shocked when these same ministers violate other commandments, dabbling in dishonesty or adultery?

 

Re-thinking “Smoke ‘n’ Mirrors”

Ever since I put up the Smoke ‘n’ Mirrors post, I’ve been feeling bad.  Publicly suggesting that Pastor Smith (a pseudonym) engineered a fake miracle so that he could kick off Living Word Church’s (another pseudonym) special week of meetings with a bang and drum up more excitement about the annual “Miracle Handkerchief And Anointing Service” was just…well, probably more cynical than any Christian ought to be.

At the very least, I should not have put up the post without trying to investigate whether a particle of my suspicions could be true.

I’d take the post down, in fact, except that I’ve vowed never to do that with anything that appears on this blog.  People link to this site, and I’ve personally always hated it when folks have second thoughts and remove posts.  It can be very confusing…and also seem sort of dishonest.

So I’ve decided I’m not going to remove the article.  Instead, I’m going to put up this disclaimer, sharing my mixed feelings, along with a request.  I know that at least a few former Living Word folks have stumbled onto this site and will easily recognize the cast of characters and remember the incident I described.  (It was, hands down, one of the most oft-repeated miracle stories at Living Word.)  If you’re one of those folks, would you please drop me an email (at charismaniablogATyahooDOTcom)?  Give me your analysis.  Even more helpful would be any sort of verification.  Maybe somebody out there was friendly with the Ortega (yet another pseudonym) son, to whom this healing supposedly happened.  Maybe there’s even someone who knows for certain that he actually went to the emergency room.  Maybe somebody even saw the x-rays.

I would dearly love, once and for all, to get to the bottom of this incident.

I’d also like to take this opportunity to explain, in a bit more detail, why I’ve become riddled with so much doubt about this particular “miracle” - even as I’m agreeing with the Pastor Smith defenders, who would no doubt be horrified that I’d dare insinuate such a thing.

Awhile back, when I was thinking about this “miracle” and how it would (I assumed) always be sort of the “final frontier” in my mind about how much that went on at Living Word was genuine and how much was mostly generated by Pastor Smith, it suddenly occurred to me that, given Living Word’s usual sophistication about showing videos on the big screen, it’s actually rather surprising that they would not have shown some still shots of this young man’s x-rays.  According to the Ortega family’s story, there were two sets of x-rays taken, one set on Sunday afternoon, prior to the wearing of the “anointed” hanky, and one set the following morning.  The first set had clearly shown a broken jaw.  The second set had shown whatever traces that an old broken jaw leaves (I’m not a medical expert).  In other words, the jaw had definitely been broken, but God had miraculously, through the anointed prayer cloth, performed a complete mending of the jaw overnight.

I just wondered, suddenly, why in the world they would not have shown those x-rays.  And called the newspaper, for that matter.  Think of the amazing documentation they should have had, with all those educated professionals who had seen the broken jaw but then had seen the healed jaw.  The media - if not the secular media, then certainly Christian media - would have gone wild.  It would have been excellent publicity for Living Word Church…and I do know that Living Word simply loves publicity.  Pastor Smith was always extremely deliberate and savvy about creating relationships with other, much bigger-name ministers.  He was willing to part with a LOT of the church’s cash to buddy up to Bishop T.D. Jakes, for example, donating $40,000 to Jakes’ well-digging outreach in Africa. 

(Interestingly enough, Pastor Smith’s two young adult sons, Timmy and Tommy, were invited to speak at Jakes’ MegaFest that very same year, just months after the $40,000 donation - roughly 1% of the church’s gross annual income - had been given.  Considering that neither of the Smith boys has exactly made a name for himself, I think it’s remarkable that they were included in such a tiny group of non-African American guys who got to speak at MegaFest.  But that’s another story.  As is how that donation managed to get made without even a peep to the congregation, until it was a done deal.) 

Pastor Smith was also adept at getting himself invited to be a guest on TBN and Daystar.  During these times, he was actually at his best, working the cameras with his unique earnest sincerity, always with many plugs for Living Word Church, and many mentions of its address. 

Even Living Word’s television ministry had little to do with “preaching the Gospel” (despite being touted as exactly that).  Rather, it was more of an infomercial for Living Word Church.  These Living Word broadcasts consisted of a half hour of Pastor Smith going on disconnected rants that had been plucked from different spots in his sermon (which made it impossible to follow his main ideas), interspersed with video of Pastor Smith that had been shot in a local television studio, where he was on some set that resembled a bookcase-lined office.  During these studio portions, Smith came across absolutely as the most gracious, enthusiastic host.  But once again, he did not share the Gospel of Christ.  Rather, he just kept urging folks to visit Living Word Church so that they could “experience this anointing.”  (Not surprisingly, Living Word’s television ministry was not very successful and disappeared without a word after about six months of heavy promotion.)

Also, what other reason would they have had, anyway, for printing up the miracle hankies with Living Word’s name, logo, AND precise location emblazoned in such a huge font, to where there could be no mistaking where the cloth had come from?

Definitely, Pastor Smith - and consequently Living Word Church - knew exactly how to do publicity!

That’s why it does not seem likely that Pastor Smith would have let the “Broken Jaw Miracle” - if it and all its documentation had been genuine - pass without making more effort to get the story picked up by news agencies.  Publicity for the “Broken Jaw Miracle,” after all, would very likely have ushered in the season of overflow that was continually being prophesied about.  People flock to the miraculous, as evidenced by other revivals like Toronto and Brownsville, and now that new one being run by Todd Bentley in Lakeland, Florida.  Theology hardly matters, as long as there are people with stories of gold fillings or healed bodies.  The Ortega family’s story would have drawn people to Living Word Church from all over the country.

Especially considering that Mr. Ortega was on staff as Pastor Smith’s assistant and right-hand man, and had a vested interest in promoting the church, there is simply no way that Living Word would not have capitalized a LOT more on this golden opportunity, considering how much utter verification there should have been…if it had happened as they said, with two sets of x-rays, and two sets of doctors who’d seen both the injury and then the healing less than 24 hours later.

Also, as my husband and I discussed this “miracle” recently, we suddenly had another thought.  Does it strike anybody else as odd that there was absolutely no concern about what had prompted a healthy young teenager to pass out in the first place?  Rather than dashing off to an orthopedic surgeon the next morning, as Pastor Smith had reported them to have done, wouldn’t at least some sort of MRI or other tests have been performed first?

Like I said, I’m no medical professional, but I am a mom, and if my teenaged son had gone through an incident like that, I don’t think I would have blown it off just because his jaw turned out to be OK.

Anyway…as you might be able to tell, I’m terribly conflicted about this seemingly minor thing that happened several years ago.  On the one hand, looking back on all the circumstances, I can’t help but be deeply suspicious about this “miracle.”  On the other hand, I am truly fearful of ascribing this incident to fraud if it actually were the real deal.

I know that one miracle should not be used to validate an entire ministry.  But I’m acutely aware of just how many people the “Broken Jaw Miracle” caused to take those prayer cloths very seriously.  I know how many people clapped and cheered and excitedly waved their anointed hanky during the service, and how many people sent those hankies off to sick and broken people in desperate need of a miracle, in large part because of a few exciting stories told and re-told, year after year, about the wonders that had been performed through those prayer cloths.  The main wonder, as I said, was always the Ortega boy’s story, because it was the only thing that had happened locally, to someone who was actually present in the service and could stand up and wave to the audience.

I know how important this story is to those who were true believers in those hankies.  I know, because I was one of those people.

Smoke ‘n’ Mirrors

[Please read my disclaimer for the following post.]

Despite our journey through Charismania, we are not cynics.  We have not lost our faith in Christ.  We believe in the Bible as the Word of God, and we believe that our only hope in life and death is that Jesus saved us from our sins by dying on the cross on our behalf and rising again from the dead.

We also still believe that God does miracles today.  After all, if God is God and He created the earth and all that is in it, there’s no reason to suppose that He can’t or won’t heal someone.  That simply wouldn’t make any sense.

However…we’ve come a long, long way from our former blind belief in the so-called “signs and wonders” that supposedly took place at Living Word Church (a pseudonym).  The other day, I got to thinking about one such “miracle,” a story that was repeated all the time and served as a major source of validation for every other claim to the supernatural which Living Word and Pastor Smith (another pseudonym) made.  It was always presented as an undeniable miracle, one that we all had practically seen take place right before our very eyes. 

Until recently, I always thought back on this incident as a piece of irrefutable “proof” that Pastor Smith’s ministry was, at least in some ways, authentic, despite all the vague or downright false prophecies that he’d given, and despite how far we knew he deviated from the Bible’s ideas about humility and servanthood.  I mean, even in the throes of my love for Living Word, I always knew, deep down, that Pastor Smith was into money, good clothes, and showy possessions far more than he was into loving and serving his congregation.  He always surrounded himself with his posse of bodyguards and rarely mingled with the people.  On the rare occasions when he did make himself available, you’d think that he was some big-time celebrity, the way folks fawned over him and got all starry-eyed and tongue-tied in his presence.

We knew this was wrong, and a downright weird way for a pastor to behave.  We knew that quite often, Pastor Smith glossed over very obvious Scriptural truths and instead focused on the relatively obscure verse in Third John, “Beloved, I wish above all else that you be in health and prosper…”  We knew that when Pastor Smith preached, he quite often took verses completely out of context and would even sometimes give them odd interpretations that were contrary to anything we’d ever heard before.

We knew all of this.  But because we believed we’d seen and felt the miraculous at Living Word Church, we figured all the errors in biblical interpretation and all the materialistic behaviors and snooty attitudes must somehow not matter much to God. 

After all, great things were happening at Living Word.  On many Sundays, Pastor Smith would prophesy over people.  Then he’d put his hands on them, and they’d “fall out under the power,” swooning backwards onto the floor, where often they’d remain for several minutes, sometimes longer, in some sort of semi-conscious state.  During those times, we knew that the Holy Spirit was doing a work in them.  Also, people were healed at Living Word.  Although it always bothered me that the physical healings during the occasional “Miracle Service” never seemed to involve anything more serious than back pain or headaches, and nobody ever jumped up out of a wheelchair, we still knew that Living Word Church was a “house of habitation,” a place where God’s presence dwelled.

As I said, we were confident of this because of some stories we’d heard repeated again and again.  For several years, Living Word Church would hold a series of special meetings each spring, during which several famous big-name preachers visited and spoke.  Some of these services were so popular that at one point, it seemed like nothing more than common sense to stand in line for four hours so that we could stake out a good seat.

The high point of this annual week of meetings was the “Prayer Handkerchief and Anointing Oil” service, usually held on the final night.  Up to this point, Pastor Smith would very ceremoniously have each visiting minister lay hands on the handkerchiefs and little vials of oil (piled high in stacks and baskets which were rolled out onto the stage on a cart).  On the designated night, everybody would file up to the front, each row of people expertly guided by the ushers, and would be handed a prayer cloth and a bottle of oil.  Pastor Smith and his wife Mary would stand in the center aisle and would touch each cloth and bottle while raucous “shout music” would play.  By the time all 1,500 or so people had made their way up front and then back to their seats, the crowds would be worked up into a feverish frenzy.  Often there’d be folks dancing in the aisles, enthusiastically waving their hankies in the air as they spun and jumped around.

I have to confess, I always enjoyed these services.  There was such excitement in the air, such expectancy, because of stories that we’d heard of the miracles that had been wrought through the anointing, particularly through the use of the prayer cloths.  For instance, somebody had sent one of the handkerchiefs to a relative living on the other side of the country, where that person had placed it on her brother, who was lying in a hospital morgue, dead from a drug overdose.  Incredibly, once the hanky had been placed on this man, his heart began beating and he sat up, alive again!

Another of the prayer cloths was sent to a lady who was a nurse.  She also happened to live thousands of miles away, in a far-off state.  In that case, a newborn baby who had been pronounced dead had come back to life.

But in my opinion, the greatest story of all did not involve anyone rising from the dead.  Yes, my personal favorite story wasn’t nearly so dramatic as the rest, but I really liked it because its key players were people who actually attended Living Word Church.  Moreover, we’d actually seen the young man - a teenager - sustain the injury from which he was eventually healed.

It happened on a Sunday morning, during the worship service that preceded the start of the week of annual meetings.  At Living Word Church, all the front-row seats were reserved for folks whom Pastor Smith called his “key people,” either staff members or trusted longtime members.  One family - we’ll call them the Ortegas - was comprised of three teenaged kids, their mom, and their dad, who was on staff as Pastor Smith’s assistant.  During that Sunday morning service, one of their sons, who was about 14 years old at the time, suddenly collapsed in a rather dramatic fashion, falling to the floor.  He was carried out, and everybody was very concerned.

Later, he was taken to a hospital, where they determined that he’d fainted from unknown causes.  He seemed to be perfectly fine, except for the fact that when he’d fallen, he’d somehow hit his jaw against the floor and it had broken.

Since that was a Sunday, an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon was set up for the next day, so that they could evaluate his broken jaw.  That night, the young man - being filled with great faith - decided to sleep with his prayer hanky (from the previous year’s special services) wrapped around his jaw.

When morning rolled around, he felt much better.  When it came time for his appointment with the surgeon, they took a new set of x-rays.  When these came back, the surgeon confessed to being highly puzzled.  Apparently, Sunday afternoon’s x-rays clearly showed that the boy had a broken jaw.  Monday’s x-rays, on the other hand, showed that while the boy’s jaw had been broken, all that remained was what looked like an old injury, all nicely healed up.

When this story was told to Living Word Church a few days later, the crowd went absolutely wild.  People clapped and cheered and shouted.  Music played, and people danced enthusiastically for many minutes.  I can remember being swept along in the wonder and excitement of it all.  There it was - an irrefutable real live miracle, one that we’d literally seen happen.

This story was told and retold, year after year, and always to the same effect.  It was very uplifting, very faith-building, especially because Mr. Ortega was still on staff, and his son was still sitting next to him in the front row.

I got to thinking about those prayer handkerchiefs recently, and about the story of the Ortega boy, because quite honestly, it was one of the main things that always kept me believing that Pastor Smith and Living Word Church were the real deal.  Even if some of the teachings were a little wacky and unbalanced, with far too much emphasis on material “blessings” for the here and now, where else could we go where the gifts of the Spirit were welcomed and practiced?  What other church out there actually had real live healings?

One interesting aspect of those prayer handkerchiefs was how they were labeled.  Living Word Church always did things in a money-is-no-object manner, and the prayer cloths were no exception.  Although only the quality of an inexpensive cotton bandana, they’d been custom-printed with the Living Word logo (a huge eagle) and the verse from Acts, about how people would bring aprons and handkerchiefs to Paul and then be healed through them.

Nothing wrong with that, really.  Except that I always found it interesting, even back when I never entertained even a slightly cynical thought, that the church made sure to put its name on the hankies, in huge print, much larger than the font used for the Bible verse.

Looking back, I can’t help but wonder about the whole thing.  Several questions come to mind.

First of all, I find it interesting that despite the heavy promotion and distribution of these hankies, there were never any local stories of healings or miracles.  To the best of my knowledge, aside from the Ortega boy, nobody from within Living Word Church itself got healed via the prayer cloths.  Obviously, had there been even a mildly dramatic miracle, it would have been trumpeted from the pulpit during subsequent prayer cloth services, just as the stories of the dead man and the dead baby had been told again and again.  Come to think of it, why did those “raise the dead” stories have such a vague sound to them?  If such a thing had actually happened, wouldn’t some newspaper have gotten hold of the story?  Why did the two most startling stories have to happen so far away?  And not to anyone directly involved at Living Word, but instead, to friends of relatives of people who’d been in the hanky services.

Does anyone else think - as I’ve begun to think - that those stories sound suspiciously like those “urban legend”-type stories?  You know, the ones like where this couple picks up an old woman hitchhiking in the rain, and she gets in and talks to them as they drive for several miles.  Yet when they ask her if she wants to be dropped off, they get no answer.  That’s when they turn around and suddenly discover that she’s no longer in the car!  She’d simply vanished.  The couple shine a flashlight in the back seat, and upon closer inspection, they see the wet imprint of the old woman’s galoshes.

Spooky stuff.

And those “urban legend” stories are always told in the same way.  They always happen to someone that the storyteller sort of knows - usually a friend of a friend.

I wish I could still be a complete and true believer in all the things that went on at Living Word Church, but because of the poison of false (phony) prophecies, I no longer know what to think about much of anything there any more.

If Pastor Smith is not immune to giving a fake or totally inaccurate prophecy once in awhile, what would stop him from cooking up some scheme to promote the prayer hanky giveaway?  I mean, in one way, that seems very far-fetched, but on the other hand, didn’t evangelist Peter Popoff get caught using a radio earpiece, through which he was fed specific information about attendees which he then passed off as “words of knowledge”?  And when interviewed about this scam sometime later, didn’t Popoff say that he did so because he wanted to encourage people in their faith?

Looking back, it all seems incredibly interesting, how one of the most loyal and worshipful staff members at Living Word - Mr. Ortega, who functioned as Pastor Smith’s indentured servant for years, literally turning himself into a carbon copy of Pastor Smith after awhile - would be the one whose son experienced such a dramatic fall, witnessed by the whole church?  Right before that year’s hanky service?

It all fits together remarkably well.  I wish I were wrong.  Maybe I am.  But what is it that they say?  Hindsight is 20/20?

One rusty nail…

It’s been awhile since we’ve added anything to the site.  That’s because, in most respects, we feel like we’ve moved on from our experience at Living Word Church (a pseudonym).  We’ve now had a year to process what we witnessed and went through, and after awhile, it’s easy to feel like we’ve figured it all out.

But the funny thing is, right when I think I’ll never have another new thing to add to this blog, I’ll get to pondering our time at Living Word, and suddenly, I’ll be hit by a realization.  That happened to me last night.

My husband and I were reminiscing about Pastor Smith’s (another pseudonym) preaching last night.  As I’ve said in another post,

The thing was, when he’d stick to Scriptures, he was a great preacher—insightful, original, wise, and articulate. When he’d veer into a slightly questionable area, such as seeming to use the pulpit to pump up his own importance, it was easy to cut him some slack. He was, after all, a very dynamic individual with great force of personality that was coupled with a sharp, curmudgeonly sense of humor. When he preached, he conveyed a unique earnest sincerity. I still don’t doubt for a moment that he himself believed in everything he preached. I still think he was honestly convinced of the validity of his own prophetic gift, and of how much the people needed his ministry. His earnest sincerity made you WANT to cheer for what he said, made his audience WANT to show their support for him.

When we first started this site, I often remarked about how Pastor Smith’s preaching was usually pretty Biblical.  He always included a lot of Bible verses and really seemed to spend time putting his sermons together.  Even after we first left Living Word, I still believed that if Pastor Smith had just stuck with Scripture and stayed away from talking so much about his prophetic abilities and the “Prosperity Gospel,” his preaching would have continued to be stellar.

But recently, while organizing my closet, I stumbled upon a collection of sermon tapes from 2003.  Figuring that it would be good entertainment to reminisce - and also figuring that maybe I might be reminded of something edifying while I finished my cleaning - I popped one of the tapes in the stereo and gave it a listen.

I have to say, I was surprised to realize something.  And that is, even back a few years ago, before Pastor Smith became fixated on money, his sermons were still not like the sermons we’ve been hearing lately at the more generic Evangelical church we’ve been attending.  Rather than discussing straightforward Biblical principles and acceptable, obvious truths, Pastor Smith’s preaching was, essentially, all about reading a verse and then telling us what he thought it meant.

“So what’s the difference,” you ask.

Well, actually, there’s a pretty big difference.  Especially sometimes.

You see, the kind of preaching that focuses on making a larger point or a life application by building on basic truths clearly spelled out in the Bible is not the same as making a declaration and then pointing out how this declaration could be supported by a verse here or there.  And it’s certainly not the same as reading a single verse and then explaining to your audience how you know, because “God told you,” that this verse is true in a new and different way for the people you’re addressing.

Case in point:  some years back, pretty early in our time at Living Word, actually, Pastor Smith preached an entire series of sermons on God’s favor.  His text? - Psalm 102:13, which says:

Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

Pastor Smith spent weeks telling us, usually for more than an hour at a stretch, that the time had come for all those connected with Living Word Church to experience God’s favor.  He had a slogan for this sermon series:  “Dream big, and believe God for favor.”  After a couple of weeks, this slogan was professionally printed onto a gigantic banner which stretched all the way across the second-floor railing in the church foyer, so that it was almost the first thing you saw as you made your way toward the sanctuary entrance.

I remember that all of those sermons were incredibly uplifting.  Pastor Smith used every bit of his sincere, enthusiastic, and utterly convincing style to convey to us that the Lord had given him this verse as a “fresh word for the house.”  It was time for all those under the sound of his voice to get ready to dream big and believe God for favor, because God had told him that the “set time” for favor had begun.

In other words, if you were hoping for a certain job promotion, perhaps, or wanting healing, or looking to buy a bigger house, your time had come.  Even if you might not be the most qualified person, you would find yourself receiving more than the typical consideration for that career advancement, because of God’s favor.  Even if the doctor had told you there was nothing more the medical profession could do for you, you did not have to give up on good health, because of God’s favor.  Even if you weren’t sure where the extra money would come from, if you had a dream for a larger house, you could get ready to see it fulfilled, because of God’s favor.

These sermons had a big effect on the congregation’s mood.  People were cheering and applauding.  Pastor Smith’s preaching would be interrupted by frequent standing ovations.  And it wasn’t just an immediate emotional response, either.  I remember talking to friends and listening to them earnestly musing about how God was finally going to bring their favorite dream to pass…because we all were soon going to be hit by an unusual time of God’s favor.

Last night, as I thought back to this sermon series, and also to the tapes I’d just recently listened to again, I was suddenly struck by something.  Why did we believe Pastor Smith when he told us that we were all about to experience God’s favor?

I mean, it certainly wasn’t because he “proved” it to us through Scripture.  Using the Bible alone, just as it’s written, it’s really impossible to “prove” such a thing.  Even though Pastor Smith took Psalm 102:13 as his “proof text,” it really was nothing of the sort…UNLESS YOU TOOK PASTOR SMITH’S WORD FOR IT.  Psalm 102 on its own, after all, was written thousands of years ago and is about Israel.  Although Pastor Smith made a passing reference to how the Christian church has now been “grafted in” and thus has a right to all the promises made to the Jewish people, the fact still remains that nothing about Psalm 102:13 itself states that it held specific truth for those of us in that sanctuary at that moment.  Really, the only reason anybody would ever get that sort of message out of Psalm 102:13 was because Pastor Smith had told them they should.  And they believed Pastor Smith.

Actually, the majority of Pastor Smith’s preaching was just like this.  He did use the Bible a lot, but it was almost always in a way that focused on HIS INTERPRETATION of what a particular passage was saying, rather than what the passage simply SAID.

In other words, almost all of Smith’s sermons hung on Smith’s credibility.

Or as my dad would say, “The whole big picture hung on one rusty nail.”

Honestly, to really get anything at all out of the preaching at Living Word, you first had to buy into the assumption that Pastor Smith somehow heard directly from God.  And then you had to believe in his authority as “God’s mouthpiece” to the congregation.  Otherwise, his sermons would all be little but empty Tony Robbins-style “rah rah” motivational speeches.

How did we all “know,” after all, that the “set time for God’s favor” had come upon us?  Was it because of Psalm 102:13?  No, not really.  Instead, it was because Pastor Smith TOLD US that this was what Psalm 102:13 should mean to us.

“Rusty nail” sermons are really kind of a scary thing, in retrospect.  Especially because of their potential to do serious damage to people who buy into them and then find themselves blaming God when “favor” doesn’t follow.  I wonder how many of Smith’s listeners back then gave offerings they could not afford because they thought that doing so was a sign of faith for the favor that they’d soon experience?  I wonder how many people ended up bitterly disappointed when they were passed over for the job promotion that “God” had promised them?

Yes, “rusty nail” sermons are dangerous, I think.  And unfortunately there’s no such thing as a spiritual tetanus shot.

Hope that does not disappoint

Sometimes I have a lot of nostalgia for the olden days, back when I bought into all things Charismatic.

Yes, despite what you may think, there was a time when I was as big a proponant of the “Word of Faith” teachings as anyone could be.

I always knew, deep down, that this singular focus on little snippets of Scripture couldn’t possibly be the “whole counsel of God.”  I also knew that, despite believing it was God’s will for everyone to be healed, the reality was that many people were NOT healed.  Were we to say that these unhealed people were then “outside of God’s will”?  I really didn’t think so.

But I silenced that questioning part of myself by speaking positive confessions.  I searched my Bible daily for every positive promise, skipping over the parts that didn’t agree with my new level of faith.  And for awhile, I truly believed. 

I believed that God would answer my prayers.  I was outspoken enough in my belief that I would often suggest prayer to people, even if I was pretty sure they didn’t usually pray about things.  I’d offer to pray for folks, and most of the time, they’d let me.  I’d pray for them boldly, too, speaking Scriptures as they’d come to mind, declaring all of God’s promises over them.

I also believed what we were taught about finances:  As long as we were faithful in our tithing, we’d never need to worry about money.  I believed there was absolutely a cause-and-effect relationship between offerings and financial needs.  If you’d come to me at that point and told me about a money problem, I’d immediately have asked you about your giving habits.  Then I would have advised you to “plant a seed” at your church.  Then I would have assured you that you would receive a “hundredfold return” on what you gave.

I can remember being so confident in my prayer life and in the reality of God’s promises that I truly had no fear of anything.  Once, when I was home alone and heard odd noises outside late at night, I shrugged off my first surge of fear and thought to myself, “If someone breaks in, I’ll just tell them to leave in the name of Jesus.” 

Then I turned over and went to sleep.

Those were some good times.

But then, as we’ve shared in many places on this site, we were forced to face the reality that the “Word of Faith” message didn’t seem to work as well as we were told it did.  We began to realize that many of the seemingly prosperous-looking people around us - folks who faithfully trooped up to the offering buckets every Sunday - were actually struggling financially.  Also, as I said, there was that nagging sense that we were neglecting a huge portion of God’s Word, picking and choosing only what supported what we wanted to be true.  We indeed were ignoring the “whole counsel of God.”

And all this time, we were seeing many things at our “Charismaniac” church that also didn’t jive with what we were being told.  We had to acknowledge, for instance, that Pastor Smith (a pseudonym) wasn’t the accurate prophet he claimed to be.  We watched as the Smiths made so many decisions that were totally self-serving rather than for the good of Living Word Church (another pseudonym) and its people.  We observed what seemed to be an ever-increasing level of control and manipulation from the pulpit.

Finally, it all got to be too much.  We had to acknowledge that something was wrong somewhere.

We began the slow and often painful process of going back to the Bible and evaluating everything we’d been taught.  I say this process has been “painful” because sometimes, it has literally HURT as we’ve had to sort through what was real - what was GOD - and what was the product of Smith’s skillful manipulation.

At times, the easiest way has been to write off the whole deal as a total deception.  It’s certainly a lot safer to reduce Pastor Smith to nothing but a money man, to see him and his positive message as just another smooth-talking scam artist.

But then…

Well, what do you do with the parts of the “Word of Faith” message that DID work?

Yesterday, I had a conversation with a good friend.  We chatted for a couple of hours about all sorts of subjects.  At the very end of our talk, she suddenly brought up a subject that I’d thought we’d never discuss again.  She mentioned a time, well over a year ago, when I’d believed I’d received a “word of knowledge” about a situation she was facing and had offered to pray for her.

That definitely had not been one of our most comfortable conversations!  For one thing, she is a faithful Catholic, not someone accustomed to spouting the Bible at every turn (as I did at that point).  I’d absolutely put my own “take” on the Christian faith on the line that day as I declared to her that God answers prayers, that all she needed to do was ask Him to intevene in her situation.  I told her to EXPECT the miraculous and she would then SEE the miraculous.

And then I prayed for her.

It wasn’t, by any stretch of the imagination, what felt like a “good” prayer.  My words didn’t flow as smoothly as they usually did, and we were interrupted more than once as our kids ran in and out of the room.  And then afterward, a slight awkwardness decended upon our friendship, to the point where we didn’t discuss “spiritual things” again for many months.  I’d never had the courage to ask her about how her situation had worked out.  In a way, I almost hoped she’d forgotten the entire thing.

So you can imagine my surprise when yesterday, she brought it up herself, more than a year after the fact.  I was stunned as I heard her say, “Listen, I have to tell you, remember that time when you prayed for me?  Well, that has made me become an absolute believer in the power of prayer!  Everything really WAS different after that day.  And it’s been a year, and it’s STILL different.  It truly was a miracle!”

As I listened to her words, I felt the faint stirrings of something I haven’t sensed in a long, long time:  HOPE.  I think that’s the thing that I’ve missed the most about Living Word, the Smiths, and everything we experienced there.  Their message was full of such HOPE!  Even in spite of all the rest of the garbage they threw at us, in the middle of it all were these powerful exhortations to keep believing, to keep having faith, that God’s Word is true, that God really does answer prayer.

Sometimes, it’d be nice to hear once again that the day of my prophetic destiny is right around the corner…

You see, the root problem of the Charismatic message for me is that it’s kind of an “all or nothing” message.  To be bold enough to believe in prayer to the point where you’ll risk humiliation (or a friendship) to offer to pray for someone, you pretty much - at least, I do - have to believe in it all.  In order to have that level of faith, I have to maintain a single-minded focus on God’s promises and the side of God’s nature that DOES seem to want us to “above all, be in good health and prosper.”  I also have to maintain confidence in the trustworthiness of the individuals preaching that message to me.

And I’m not sure anymore whether I should be furious at Pastor Smith for tainting my “true believer” status with all of his money-grubbing self-promotion, or if I should be grateful to him for at least giving us a few years when we were full of wide-eyed, true-believin’ HOPE.

Or both.

A great observation…

We’re still following the ORU story.  The other day, it took an amazing and wonderful turn, when the family who owns Hobby Lobby pledged $60 million to bail out the beleaguered university.  The Tulsa World did an interview with Mart Green, the family spokesman, which you can read here.

Buried in the “comments” section (found below the story) was an anonymous observation which I found to be very astute:

One subtext of Assemblies of God Mart Green coming on the scene to rescue ORU is the unresolvable tensions within the broadest notion of the charismatic family: The Word of Faith substream antagonizes many in the classic Pentecostal and charismatic streams, who share WOFers’ belief in the contemporary charismatic work of the Holy Spirit but NOT its formulaic presumption about health and wealth. Big differences lie beneath the superficial unity that outside observers may see; and classicals, who have survived a century of ostracism from their fundamentalist/evangelical siblings hate to openly criticize WOFers who (1) have the media limelight and big followings and (2) remain brothers in arms on many points, theologically.

Let’s see how this plays out as Mr. Green tells the WOFers that their problem is spiritual, not financial.

This anonymous poster points out an important distinction that we’ve encountered as we’ve managed this site.  Some folks have automatically assumed that we were criticizing EVERYBODY who believes that the “gifts of the Spirit” (like speaking in tongues) are for today. 

Sometimes it’s been difficult to explain what makes a teaching or a ministry distinctly “Charismaniac” (in serious biblical error).  We made our own tongue-in-cheek list of what characterizes “Charismaniacs,” but we’ve never actually articulated (like the commenter did) that there IS a tension between ministries that believe in a biblical continuation of the gifts and those that add things like the “Prosperity Gospel” to their teachings.  I think this commenter is correct in that it’s hard to take a stand against many of the ministries who are in error, because they DO happen to be the ones who are on TV and garner all the attention.

Also, it can look like ALL critics of “Charismania” are throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.  Point out the errors of the “Word/Faith” and “Prosperity Gospel” teachings, and people think you’re also trashing anyone who believes in things like the miraculous or speaking in tongues.

But there really ARE ministries who have maintained a classical Pentecostal “continuist” point of view while at the same time rejected unbiblical “Word of Faith” doctrines.

What do you think?

Paula White and Larry King - a reader weighs in

I only caught a portion of Paula White’s appearance the other night on Larry King Live.  I found myself yelling at the TV - I just couldn’t stomach watching her dance around Larry’s hard questions.  The whole thing is so sad, because I can remember when she still preached Christ.  It wasn’t that long ago, either.  Back in the spring of 2006, she was a featured speaker at our former church.  As I’ve mentioned before, we had a coveted front-row seat for that service, and I was so inspired by her passionate preaching of God’s Word that the next morning, I visited her website and signed up to be one of her prayer partners.

Now I’m wondering how someone could change course so dramatically in just eighteen months.

“Linda,” one of our readers, left a great comment about Paula’s sad cop-out performance on LKL.  Check it out:

I came across this web site while trying to look up more info on Paula White’s appearance on Larry King the other night.

I was FLOORED when Larry King asked her POINT BLANK, “What is God to you? Is He a Spirit? Who is He?” And all she could say was, “Yes, Larry, God IS a Spirit, and I don’t profess to know everything about Him,” or something to the extent. She could NOT tell Mr. King that God was in Christ, that to see Christ is to see the Second Person of the Godhead; that Christ came FROM Heaven so that we may know God. She had NO ANSWER for Larry King.

And believe me, from the looks of it…Larry King has been searching,it seems, for a very long time…having one spiritual person on after another, asking them all, “how do you get to heaven? Do you think Jews will go to heaven if they don’t believe in Jesus?” This man is older…has a young wife, and two young children…he doesn’t want to leave this earth….and he’s looking for the fountain of youth…trying, like my former boss….to keep from dying. But…knowing we all die…you can tell that he wants ANSWERS…

Yet he keeps having people on like Paula White, and Joel Olsteen…who WON’T TELL HIM the truth, for fear of the gospel, and that it will shame them in front of the whole world. They won’t tell him that JESUS HIMSELF SAID He was the gate, to enter by the narrow way. Nor did Paula tell him, “Larry…Jesus said you MUST be born again of His Spirit….due to the fall of Adam…that’s why He entered thru the belly of a woman…to bypass the human fallen line.”

Because of what she did…I began to read over her entire web site, and I saw a very familiar thing that I see with many of these seed faith people…they will talk about GOD…and about JESUS…and they will always say, Jesus AND God…but they NEVER say Jesus IS God….ever. I didn’t see her say it once. I see her say, “the Lord,” but never the LORD JESUS….or that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit…(I Corinthians 15:45; John 20:22)….

Anyway…this is what I noticed….I’m relieved to see that I wasn’t the only person who was put off by this woman’s ministry…It just always struck me as a ministry of “self-help,”…trying to make the flesh stronger…when Jesus said that apart from Him we could do nothing…and the flesh availeth nothing. If anything…these people need to help people DIE TO THEMSELVES…SO THAT CHRIST can ALONE reign in their hearts… after all…it’s HIS LIFE…not ours…(Gal. 2:20). What do these people think they’re doing telling DEAD PEOPLE….(who no longer live…but it’s CHRIST WHO LIVES IN THEM)…..to clean up their lives, and become stronger? The original sin is one of PRIDE…and the holy spirit brings us to see our WEAKNESS…not our strength…so that like Paul, we can glory IN OUR WEAKNESS, so that then we will be strong IN THE LORD AND HIS MIGHTY POWER.

These people truly have not grasped the good news that the people they’re trying to reach don’t need “things” or a “good SELF image”…they need LIFE….Jesus’ life….He is the resurrection and THE LIFE.

Well said, Linda!  We couldn’t agree with you more.

I just don’t understand why the Body of Christ keeps supporting people like Paula White.  As she herself said, she can’t “do what she does” without money.  If enough folks stand up and quit sending her their donations, maybe she can be put out of business.

Pastor Smith and his “anointing”

One of the great mysteries we still wonder about is just how much Pastor Smith realizes and understands about the stuff that goes on at Living Word Church (once again, our usual disclaimer:  “Pastor Smith” and “Living Word Church” are both pseudonyms, as are all other names used on this site).

Awhile back, we posted an entry about whether or not what we experienced at Living Word was actually the “presence of God.”  Pastor Smith called it the presence of God.  The church members all thought it was the presence of God.  At the time, we ourselves would have said that that certain “rush” - that certain something that made us want to both weep and jump for joy at the same time - was the Holy Spirit.

But when you look at the harsh facts, it’s difficult to know for sure.

On the one hand, this “feeling” - or whatever it was - is marketed by Pastor Smith as the single most important reason why people should leave their “dead churches” and plant themselves at Living Word.  This “feeling” is also carefully orchestrated and cultivated, particularly through the use of music.  People would often refer to it as “The Anointing.”  They believed - and Pastor Smith taught - that “The Anointing” was something he personally dispensed (for lack of a better word).

Yet, on the other hand, how could Pastor Smith knowingly be so manipulative and still come across as so believable and sincere?  How could he stand there week after week, as he’s done for more than twenty years, and not be afraid that God was going to strike him dead with a lightning bolt or something?

After posting “Hooked on a Feeling…”, I really enjoyed the comments that different folks left.  They helped me to come to the following sudden realization:

Sometimes I think that, rather than being so diabolically manipulative that he deliberately manufactures a FALSE something that he then tries to pass off as the “presence of God,” Pastor Smith is actually just as hooked on the sensation (what ever “it” is) as the rest of his audience. He’s probably deliberate in how he wants the service structured, and in the kinds of music he tells his son to choose. But I think he and his family do genuinely believe that whatever it is they “stir up” in people actually IS “the anointing,” or the presence of God. 

Probably the fact that they believe they CAN dispense God’s presence is one of the reasons they’re able to hold themselves above everybody else. I mean, if you think you’ve got God Himself at your disposal, you’re going to feel pretty superior. And you’ll actually begin to believe that you NEED bodyguards and that you DESERVE all the best things.

If the Smiths genuinely believe this - that they somehow “have God on tap” - a lot of the crazy stuff at Living Word would make more sense. Such as the birthday offerings they’d take for themselves. I always wondered how they dared to have the nerve to TELL PEOPLE to give them gifts. Who do they think they are, anyway? But I think I may have inadvertently explained this to myself here. They think they’re the keepers of God’s presence. That’s GOT to be some heady stuff! No wonder they do all the arrogant, insensitive, and prideful things they do. It all suddenly makes sense. 

What do YOU think?